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A Custody Query

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  • A Custody Query

    Why would a mother be applying for custody of her own daughter ( aged 4) in 1927?

    The only reason I can think of is that the child had already been taken from her.

    And why would she be refused custody of her own child? I met her several times and she seemed a perfectly competent and caring person
    Joan died in July 2020.

  • #2
    1927 - women didn't have many rights then and if I recall correctly the father had automatic custody if they split up. Weren't wives even chattels then?

    Also the husband could have made her out to be an unfit mother - for quite trival reasons which wouldn't hold water these days.



    Researching Irish families: FARMER, McBRIDE McQUADE, McQUAID, KIRK, SANDS/SANAHAN (Cork), BARR,

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    • #3
      If the parents split up, one or both of them would have to apply for custody of the children.

      In those days, a mother could be refused custody if she'd committed adultery, I believe.

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      • #4
        Thanks JBee

        I think the couple may have split up by then ( but not divorced)

        The strange thing is that it seems the mother was only applying for custody of one of her children and not the other (my late mother)

        Thank you
        Joan died in July 2020.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Mary from Italy View Post
          If the parents split up, one or both of them would have to apply for custody of the children.

          In those days, a mother could be refused custody if she'd committed adultery, I believe.

          Thanks Mary,

          How would the adultery be proved? Would it just be the father's word? - there were subsequent divorce proceedings ( a year later) alleging adultery, but these were dismissed
          Joan died in July 2020.

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          • #6
            This is an interesting link

            History of child support in the UK



            Researching Irish families: FARMER, McBRIDE McQUADE, McQUAID, KIRK, SANDS/SANAHAN (Cork), BARR,

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            • #7
              Thanks JBee

              That looks very useful - and strange when I first looked at it as it refers to the Beveridge Report - something HW from my other thread seemed to gripe about a lot.

              Thank you
              Joan died in July 2020.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Muggins in Sussex View Post
                Thanks Mary,

                How would the adultery be proved? Would it just be the father's word? - there were subsequent divorce proceedings ( a year later) alleging adultery, but these were dismissed
                No, I think he'd have had to produce some kind of evidence, but it wouldn't have been all that difficult to pay a witness to give evidence.

                It is odd that she only applied for custody of one child - perhaps the parents had agreed to take one each?

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                • #9
                  Diana Spencer's father got custody of his children, money talks. If the father had money custody was often awarded to him. Especially if he could prove the mother lived an "immoral life".
                  Last edited by Guinevere; 27-07-08, 11:10.
                  Gwynne

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mary from Italy View Post
                    No, I think he'd have had to produce some kind of evidence, but it wouldn't have been all that difficult to pay a witness to give evidence.

                    It is odd that she only applied for custody of one child - perhaps the parents had agreed to take one each?
                    Thanks Mary - yes it is odd! That is a possiblity - or maybe it was believed at the time that the children had different fathers - or mothers

                    Gwynne he was rich at the time - so I'm sure that explains a lot.

                    Thanks
                    Joan died in July 2020.

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                    • #11
                      Joan

                      I know that my mil told me she had a cousin Wendy (not her real name) whose father Louis remarried after Wendy's mother died. mil's parents (her mother Maud was L's sister) applied for custody of the child and lost as fathers had more rights then and children's views weren't taken into consideration. Louis' own mother was so irked she stopped talking to Louis and also to mil's parents as they hadn't appealed against the court ruling - their lawyer had said they would just be throwing their money away.

                      I met Wendy years later. She said her stepmother threw her doll (present from mil's parents) out of the window of the train when she took her away. Louis only wanted Wendy because that way he got control of money from Wendy's mother's estate.

                      JBee
                      thanks for that useful link. I see the 1845 Bastardy Act came just after my illegitimate gt grandmother was born.
                      Last edited by Little Nell; 27-07-08, 13:21.
                      ~ with love from Little Nell~
                      Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                      • #12
                        Custody of Children Act 1891

                        said

                        "Although the child's welfare was stated to be paramount under this Act, parents were still regarded as having the right of custody of the child, and the courts' powers only really came into play when parents made application for the return of a 'lost' child, when they had to prove their fitness. Intriguingly modern is the clause that gives the courts 'power to consult the wishes of the child in considering what order ought to be made'. Also, the parents had the right 'to require that the child be brought up in a particular religion', countering the sectarianism that had caused so much of the previous litigation. "

                        source: ethicsforschools.org - adoption & fostering

                        I am guessing that perhaps this is the law under which your ancestor sought custody of her daughter.
                        ~ with love from Little Nell~
                        Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                        • #13
                          There is a black stain in my own family history.

                          A divorced B, and got custody of his two daughters in 1933, because their mother was "an immoral woman". (She had an affair, later married the man and remained married to him for 50 years).

                          Access in those days was purely at the whim of the custodial parent. A told his daughters their mother was dead. Then he put them in a children's home where they remained for the rest of their childhood.

                          As far as I know, they went to their graves believing their mother had died in 1933.

                          I really struggle with this piece of monumental cruelty, which was, of course, backed up by the law of the land.

                          OC

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                          • #14
                            Thanks Nell - that is really interesting

                            And what a sad story about "Wendy"
                            Joan died in July 2020.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                              There is a black stain in my own family history.

                              A divorced B, and got custody of his two daughters in 1933, because their mother was "an immoral woman". (She had an affair, later married the man and remained married to him for 50 years).

                              Access in those days was purely at the whim of the custodial parent. A told his daughters their mother was dead. Then he put them in a children's home where they remained for the rest of their childhood.

                              As far as I know, they went to their graves believing their mother had died in 1933.

                              I really struggle with this piece of monumental cruelty, which was, of course, backed up by the law of the land.

                              OC
                              That is just dreadful, OC - those poor girls.....
                              Joan died in July 2020.

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                              • #16
                                And probably pure spite to get at the mother. Certainly didn't take the children's views into consideration - and presumably father didn't have to pay towards their keep either.
                                ~ with love from Little Nell~
                                Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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