Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Digging deeper into the past

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Digging deeper into the past

    Hi,

    I am looking for a marriage between Thomas Lawley and Martha, presume in Shropshire, c1680. I can't find anything on IGI, so don't yet know if this is the end of the line.

    I suspect many of you will be thinking, that I should be grateful to have gone back this far, but as you will also know yourselves - we always want that little bit more information.:D

    So my question is, is it possible to go further back or am I just being plain greedy ;)

    regards
    treesa

  • #2
    It just depends on what has survived.

    I have "easy" ancestors, in that most of them are rural, not moving great distances, not too common names.

    There is only one ordinary line that I have got back beyond 1650 with confidence.

    During the Civil War there was a hiatus in record keeping. Most registers have a generation gap. Even if people with the same surname, in the same village, are laughing and sneering at you from the earlier period, you can't prove they are your ancestors. More usually, they just turn up and you have no idea whether it is from the next village, the next county, or half way across the country (I know there were movements between Norfolk & Devon, for example but can only speculate that my Norfolk Webbers originate in Devon)

    There are lots of helpful records for the 1600s: hearth tax, association oath rolls, protestation returns, pcc wills and admons to give you help with where surnames are clustered, but you will need more that the IGI to help you.
    Phoenix - with charred feathers
    Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't have any lines back as far as 1680. Most stop around 1780, because I cannot prove where anyone was born or married if they didn't live until at least 1841 and preferably 1851.

      The only line I can prove anything on is the one where many people made wills. These prove that this family moved from county to county and married people from distant places - they were only ordinary people, so I always think, why shouldn't the rest of the lines on my tree have done the same!

      The problem with the IGI is it's so tempting to choose from what is available on it when of course the coverage can be patchy and some people were so awkward and didn't do the obvious thing, like marry close to where they lived!

      Comment


      • #4
        Treesa, you may find that parish registers go back a bit earlier. You need to check out your IGI entries there anyway. Which parishes are you interested in?

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks very much for all your input. I realise that the further I go back then what I find may or may not be correct, with there being no civil registration and therefore no certificates. But I am having fun trying!!

          Mary - Thomas and Martha had children born Ditton Priors, but when I went on genuki, there was no mention of a church, or a line I could follow that may lead me to one. So i don't know if any records survive, but I thought I would ask more experienced researchers in the hope that they may have some advice or answers for me.

          treesa

          Comment


          • #6
            Parish registers cover the entire county. Ditton Priors may not be a parish, but it would certainly lie within one.
            You could Google it, find it on a map, then check parish description on Genuki, to find out which one it lies in, or contact the relevant record office and ask them which parish it is in.
            Phoenix - with charred feathers
            Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

            Comment


            • #7
              According to google Bridgnorth is closest and the churches are St MAry Magdalene and St leonard.


              Thanks very much for your help, much appreciated. Off I go again ............

              Comment


              • #8
                Ditton Priors is a parish with a parish church.

                The LDS has microfilmed its parish registers for 1673-1812.

                The IGI has the following entries for Ditton:

                Parish church:

                Christenings:
                C037411 1673-1813

                Marriages:
                M037411 1673-1812
                M037413 1813-1837

                Weslayan Chapel Nc:
                P016241 1801-1834

                IGI Batch Numbers for Shropshire, England

                Comment


                • #9
                  The church is St. John the Baptist:

                  SFHS - Shropshire Churches D

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks very much Mary for looking this up for me.

                    Either the marriages aren't complete, or the marriage took place elsewhere, that is what I am led to believe, as the marriage is not on IGI. That is unless My Thomas married Mary, and somehow her name changed!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by treesa View Post
                      Mary - Thomas and Martha had children born Ditton Priors, but when I went on genuki, there was no mention of a church, or a line I could follow that may lead me to one. So i don't know if any records survive, but I thought I would ask more experienced researchers in the hope that they may have some advice or answers for me.

                      treesa
                      Treesa,

                      Might it be worth contacting these people, if you haven't already? They seem to have done a huge amount of research on their village.

                      BBC - Shropshire - History - Ditton Priors history project

                      Roger

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Mary and Martha can look similar in old script - especially when it's faint. You might need to look at the original records (or films of them) to be quite sure that "Mary" really is "Mary".

                        Christine
                        Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Treesa,

                          From 1638 to 1660 is a rather dark period for finding records. From 1649 until 1660 is known as the Interregnum Period where England was without a King. The worst part of that period is the Commonwealth Period of the 1650's where marriages and baptisms were not allowed to take place in churches and marriages were contracted on 3 market dayes rather than Church Banns. I found one such record in Huntingdon in 1657 and was thrilled to find it as the wording is so different. I am lucky in that my area goes back to 1538 and the start of record keeping, and many records have survived, but even I am struggling with the father of the one who married in 1657. I have a record of his probable baptism in the next village at 1633 but though 99% confident I have the correct one, it remains unproven, unless I can find other evidence. I have many missing children in the 1650's, and realise that they were the consequence of this "Commonwealth or Interregnum Period", and it is these vital missing links that have caused many people to realise how difficult it will be to get back beyond this period with any real certainty, unless you can prove by landowning that you can get further back. I think that to do this part of your research properly it will be necessary to go to the Shropshire CRO unless you can obtain these parish records on a CD somewhere. The IGI is far too unreliable for that period unless the records have been taken from the church registers.

                          Janet
                          Last edited by Janet; 23-07-08, 20:54.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Don't give up with the Civil wars, Interregnum or Commonwealth periods some parish registers continued straight throught.
                            In others the register handed his records over to the priest with the restoration.
                            Cheers
                            Guy
                            Guy passed away October 2022

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The IGI is far too unreliable for that period unless the records have been taken from the church registers.
                              And even if they have, there are hardly any burials on the IGI, so you could easily make a mistake.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                The IGI for many parts of the country is ureliable full stop! Northamptonshire is one of the worst counties and so few of the records of Northants are on the IGI. Of all my Northants Ancestors, I only found one marriage in Peterborough on the IGI and that would be very misleading for people as the family went back to their village 10 miles south of Peterborough and I only found that out by going to Northants CRO and finding the original 1699 Marriage Licence. I do not know Shropshire, so do not know the coverage but deaths on the IGI are always difficult. I have never found any deaths on the IGI for any of my ancestors! All mine have been found at the Northants CRO.

                                No, do not give up, and I have found quite a lot in this period but be aware of the difficulties. One other way of finding your way through this dark period of history, is to immerse yourself in the background history of the area at this time and look at the landowners records to see if any of your folk are mentioned. I have found a few this way but most of this sort of material is not online but at the CRO. Have a look on A2A site to see if you can find anything about the village/town.

                                Janet

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I dont know if freereg has anything of use?

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Janet View Post
                                    The IGI for many parts of the country is ureliable full stop! ...

                                    Janet
                                    I rather like this example!

                                    ABRAHAM JACOBS JONES
                                    Birth: 1828 London, London, England
                                    Marriages:
                                    Spouse: Sarah Sophia GOLDSMID
                                    Marriage: 20 OCT 1824 London
                                    Death: 02 MAR 1870
                                    Record submitted after 1991 by a member of the LDS Church.
                                    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I second what Guy has said above. Many parish priests, who had been rather lax about keeping records, were spurred by b***y mindedness to keep church records of BIRTHS marriages and deaths in secret, once it was forbidden.

                                      Many Lancashire parish registers survive intact and unbroken through this period.

                                      Others are reconstructed, not from memory, but from other secret records kept at the time, and I THINK, some of these reconstructions (certainly for marriages) were taken from the civil rwegistrations of the interregnum, before THEY were destroyed, lol.

                                      What is interesting about this period is the number of "late" marriages - presumably the church rounding up all those who had married in a civil ceremony to be done properly.

                                      If records start abruptly, say 1620, then look for the date of the creation of that parish, and for the building of that church, and track back to the previous parish which covered the area. It is often not so much that the records don't survive, more that they are not where you think they should be.

                                      OC

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Many thanks for all your help and wisdom. I have ideas now as to where to go next. I will work through your messages and see if I can go any further. So thanks very much for all your very interesting and very helpful posts. You have given me more history of that period so I can, hopefully, progress.

                                        thanks very much everyone.

                                        regards
                                        treesa

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X