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My great great grandmother....

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  • My great great grandmother....

    ....is proving very difficult.

    Her name was Ann or Annie, wife of Charles Carr and she appears on the census as following..

    1871 aged 24 born St Pancras
    1881 aged 32 born St Lukes
    1891 aged 42 born St Lukes
    1901 aged 50 born St Lukes

    Her daughter's birth certificate gives her maiden name as Strachan. She had the following children - Elizabeth in 1866, Annie Margaret in 1867, Charles Alexander in 1870, William John in 1875, Ellen Harriet in 1878, Frederick Elias in 1881 and Alice Ruth in 1888.

    There doesn't appear to be a marriage for Charles and Ann or a birth certificate for Ann or Charles and I can't yet find a baptism for Ann. I am certain she doesn't appear on the 1861 census but then there is a lot of London missing.

    In 1881, there appears a 'grandmother' in the household - Ellen Strong aged 73 born St Lukes. I'm sure she isn't a relation of Charles' family who I have been able to identify on census. My theory is that she is actually Ann's mother and that Strong is a rendering of Strawn, a common pronunciation of Strachan.

    There is this family on the 1851 census in Grays Inn Lane (Pancras)
    Alexander Strachan hd 49 optical glass grinder journeyman born in the City
    Helen wife 44 b Clerkenwell
    Margaret dau 19 milliner b St Lukes
    Henry son 17 journeyman butcher b St Lukes
    Alexander son 14 errand boy b St Lukes
    William son 12 b Shoreditch
    Nancy 3 b Whitechapel
    John 1 b St Pancras.

    I have the baptisms for the elder four children on the census. I think Nancy is probably my Ann. There is a marriage for an Alexander Strong and an Eleanor Jenkins Ford in 1831 in St Lukes and Eleanor was baptised at St Lukes in 1809. Alexander dies in Clerkenwell in 1870 and Eleanor is the informant and Eleanor dies in 1886 in Islington Infirmary so no related informant.

    The names of my Ann's children suggest to me that I have the right family - has anyone got any advice or suggestions if they've managed to read this far.
    Asa

  • #2
    They look right to me but I don't know how you could prove it.
    Gwynne

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    • #3
      Thank you, Gwynne:-) Proving it is the problem though as you say...
      Asa

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      • #4
        Have you checked to see whether Alexander or Eleanor left a will?
        KiteRunner

        Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
        (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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        • #5
          Isn't it strange - I automatically read the name as Strawn rather than Strack-Ann so when I saw the Strong I automatically thought you were on to something....

          Anyways - have you traced any of the siblings forward or got any of their marriage certs etc to see if Ann/Annie appears on them.

          Btw, I also have a Shoreditch Annie who randomly gets called Nancy
          Zoe in London

          Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

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          • #6
            Did Alexander's other children marry? Their certificates may show Ann as a witness.

            Your hypothesis seems very likely, but you need another way to link the people together.
            Phoenix - with charred feathers
            Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

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            • #7
              There's this marriage on FreeBMD

              Marriages Mar 1864 (>99%)
              Carr Charles John Hackney 1b 482


              Letters Q R S T U and V are missing from the pages on ancestry so it's not possible to check if there's a matching Strachan
              Zoe in London

              Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

              Comment


              • #8
                FreeBMD images also has S T U and V missing
                Zoe in London

                Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ditto! I automatically read Strawn too and thought Strong was a, erm, strong possibility, lol!

                  My Annes and Nancys are all interchangeable, depending on who was talking about them and to whom.

                  The naming pattern is good too.

                  Although Granny says she was born St Lukes, I do wonder if she, or her husband, had Scottish connections with a name like Strachan. Have you IGI-d it all?

                  OC

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                  • #10
                    Here's the Alexander/Elleanor family in 1841:



                    30 New Inn Yard, St Leonards Shoreditch

                    Alexander Strawn 38, Optician
                    Ellenor, 28
                    Margaret 9
                    Henry 7
                    Alexander 5
                    Andrew 3
                    William 3 weeks

                    all born in county

                    HO107; Piece 706; Book: 4; Folio: 16; Page: 25; Line: 16


                    all information Crown Copyright from the National Archives
                    Zoe in London

                    Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      if they're pronouncing it Strawn there's bound to be a Scottish connection at some point.
                      Zoe in London

                      Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Alexander junior in 1871


                        23 Copenhagen Street, Islington

                        Alexander Strachan 31, Optician, ST Lukes
                        Elizabeth, 29, Somerset ???
                        William, 11, Clerkenwell
                        Alexander, 8, Clerkenwell
                        Albert, 2, Clerkenwell
                        Elizabeth 6 wks, Islington

                        RG10; Piece: 260; Folio: 46; Page: 7
                        Zoe in London

                        Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          A2A has a Sun Fire document for Charles Strachan living at Grays Inn Lane in 1818
                          Zoe in London

                          Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

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                          • #14
                            I haven't found any family wills yet, Kiterunner but then most of them seem to have been fairly poor.

                            Hello Zoe:-) I think you and OC are right and there is probably a Scottish connection - the Alexander suggests this as well. I strongly suspect that Alexander's family are the ones in and around the City as there are other Strachan optical glass grinders. The mother seems to be a Margaret and there are baptisms for possible siblings at St Botolphs but not one for Alexander. There is a theory held by a descendant of Annie's brother Alexander as to where Scottish ancestry fits in but it's mostly guesswork.

                            My (unrelated to this lot) grandmother was an Annie who was known as Nance.

                            Thank you, Phoenix, I have traced Ann's siblings William and Alexander but can't find the others. I have their marriage dates but not the witnesses so thank you, will try that.

                            Zoe, I will search for that marriage next time I'm at the LMA. It doesn't seem likely to me though - Charles had an elder brother John and given Annie's age I would expect her to marry not long before Elizabeth's birth. I should mention that several of Annie's descendants married after the births of children or very shortly before.

                            Sorry Zoe, I do have the 41 already - I should also mention that in 1891, there is a mother-in-law to head of household, one Harriet Nunn. This is a total red herring as she is actually Charles' sister.

                            I'll have a look at the Sun Fire thing. I've seen it but am dubious because the Strachans seem to be centred around the City. What info do they contain?

                            Thank you everyone for your thoughts
                            Asa

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by samesizedfeet View Post
                              FreeBMD images also has S T U and V missing
                              Find my past has the S's but I don't have a sub there.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Had a look at marriages for Strachan Q1 1863 - Q4 1867 inc. These are the only Ann/Annie/Nancy entries

                                Annie @ Honiton 5 b 60 Q4 1863
                                Annie @ Worksop 7 b 45 Q3 1865
                                Ann E @ Westminster 1 a 670 Q2 1866
                                Ann @ Newcastle T 10 b 54 Q1 1867
                                Mary Ann @ Marylebone 1 a 1050 Q3 1867

                                Not much help I know but ?

                                L

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                                • #17
                                  Thank you very much for going to the trouble, L. There isn't a Charles Carr who matches any of those. It really wouldn't surprise me if they didn't get married.
                                  Asa

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Hi

                                    I'm not sure if you still use this site. My Grt Grt Grandfather is Joseph Nixon and I am also confused about his marriage to Annie Houdebourck. My email is *************** if you are able to get in touch.

                                    Many thanks

                                    Louise
                                    Last edited by Jill on the A272; 04-03-18, 07:19. Reason: email removed

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Welcome to the forum Louise, I have removed your email in line with our policy, you can contact/be contacted directly via our personal message system though.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Hi Jill

                                        My Apologies. I will try and send personal message but don't hold out much hope as it looks like he has not been active in quite a while. Struggling with a mystery on my tree... It is so frustrating.

                                        Thanks again

                                        Louise

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