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  • Silver Rattle

    Hope you don't object to new photos, but of something old! Just wondering if anyone can tell me anything about this rattle/whistle/teether. It's a family heirloom which I know nothing about! I'd like to know how old it is, how common this type of thing was, and any other thoughts, please.


    Scuda
    Last edited by Pippa Doll; 14-11-08, 21:54.
    Pitman / Pittman in North Glos (Didbrook, Prestbury, Longhope, Tewkesbury, Stow, Cirencester, etc), London & Australia

  • #2
    Well, I googled and found that S & Co (looking like yours) is Sydney and Co of Birmingham. The one I looked at was 1905.

    See the third example here:

    an illustrated directory listing 3000 hallmarks of England, Scotland, Ireland, Channel Islands and Colonial silver (Canada, India, Cape), maker marks, town marks, date letter, duty marks. A selection of 18th, 19th, and 20th century British silvermiths illustrated with their marks and biographical information: Smith & Bartlam , Searle & Co Ltd, Searle & Co, Suckling Limited, Hammond, Creake & Co -Saint Arnaud Creake- , S. Blanckensee and Son Ltd, S. Blanckensee & Sons Ltd, Sarah & John William Blake, Samuel Boyce Landeck, S C Younge & Co , Stuart Devlin, Samuel Dutton, Solomon Hougham, Hayne & Cator, Samuel Hayne & Dudley Cater , Stokes & Ireland Ltd -William Henry Stokes & Arthur George Ireland-, William Suckling Ltd, Sampson Mordan & Co, Sampson Mordan & Co, Samuel M Levi , Samuel M Levi Ltd (possibly), Samuel Pemberton, Goldsmiths Alliance Ltd -Samuel Smily-, Samuel Wood, Samuel Walton Smith , S W Smith & Co ,


    Your hallmark looks like 1910 Birmingham (from a book of halmarks I have) - the example, above, was 1907 (h) whilst yours is 1910 (l)

    But I'm no expert at all! lol
    Last edited by Merry Monty Montgomery; 14-07-08, 15:16.

    Comment


    • #3
      As for how common they were......Well, I would imagine only the more well off people could have afforded a silver one.

      From googling they seem to be worth quite a bit - probably quite collectable.

      Comment


      • #4
        This makes things alot better, for me anyway looking at them








        Now really you need OC on this case, she might be able to tell you abit about the hallmarks
        Julie
        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

        .......I find dead people

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks both of you.

          Darksecretz, how did you do that? Much better, I agree.

          Merry, I googled but didn't find that site (probably because it's Italian, and I only searched British sites). I agree that the maker's mark is the one you said, and the year fits with my understanding that this was my father's rattle (he was born in 1916). What I can't understand is why he would have had such a thing, his parents were not well off, father in the army, mother travelling to do sewing work. Thinking of silver items given to babies today, I wonder if it could have been a Christening present, although I can't imagine who would have given it.

          Anyone else have any ideas?

          Scuda
          Pitman / Pittman in North Glos (Didbrook, Prestbury, Longhope, Tewkesbury, Stow, Cirencester, etc), London & Australia

          Comment


          • #6
            From what I've read about such things, your lovely teething ring/rattle would have been a christening present, I think it copies a much earlier style.

            Comment


            • #7
              scuda,

              all I did was click on your attached pics and then right click on the pic and copy then paste.

              have another tab open and the same thread then reply to the thread and paste the pix into it...

              I dont use the site the "paperclip" facility, (I think photobucket is much easier)

              Last edited by Darksecretz; 14-07-08, 21:48.
              Julie
              They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

              .......I find dead people

              Comment


              • #8
                all victorian teething rattles brenda xxx

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks for the replies. I'll just have to assume the family had a wealthy friend, maybe a Godparent, to give something that was probably never used.

                  Darksecretz, I hadn't realised you could copy and paste pictures into posts. I'll try that next time.

                  Scuda
                  Pitman / Pittman in North Glos (Didbrook, Prestbury, Longhope, Tewkesbury, Stow, Cirencester, etc), London & Australia

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    No problem glad to help, just sorry I cant help with the rattle,
                    Julie
                    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                    .......I find dead people

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I've been looking, these type of rattle go back to ancient times when they were ritual objects in places like ancient egypt. The ring will be ivory, the bells keep away bad spirits ( I assume the whistle too) They were very popular christening gifts in georgian, victorian and edwardian times. A lot of them have coral on as that was thought to be lucky, yours doesn't. Nice ones seem to be worth £150 to £200, and yours seems to be a nice one....;)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If it's a capital "I" at the end in a shield shape then that year would have been 1933, which would make it too late to be your dad's rattle.

                        The small letters appear to be earlier, then Birmingham assay office used capitals in the twenties onwards.


                        Joanie

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          i was with my inlaws 14 years ago and they bought one at a antiques fair for £50.00 mil told me it would be for her grandaughter (she only had grandsons) 2 years later i obliged and the rattle was given to my daughter on her christening day.
                          Lisa
                          xxx


                          If the shoe fits buy one in every colour

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks Barbara, Joan & Lisa.

                            Barbara, that background info is interesting, confirms the Christening present idea.

                            Joan, it looks much earlier than that, but perhaps it's just the style that's old. I don't think the I is in a shield shape, anyway. If it dates from 1933 I just can't imagine why it would be in the family - no children born in the thirties.

                            Lisa, your story suggests it could have come into the family quite recently, but I don't think so in this case. My mother said that it was from my Dad's side, and they married in 1949, so before that at least, I suppose.

                            All ideas welcome, even if they don't get me anywhere!!

                            Scuda
                            Pitman / Pittman in North Glos (Didbrook, Prestbury, Longhope, Tewkesbury, Stow, Cirencester, etc), London & Australia

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              the rattle was bought at a second hand antique fair in Derby about 14 years ago.

                              Never looked into its history but the handle had teetch marks when it was bought.

                              My daughters handle is a whistle and it has 3 siver balls all joined together in an almost circle shape at the top. will see if a can find a mark on it as it is all silver
                              Lisa
                              xxx


                              If the shoe fits buy one in every colour

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                If it's a capital "I" at the end in a shield shape
                                I don't think it's a capital I, I think it's a lower case L, which makes it 1910. Certainly the style of it is Edwardian-ish.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Right I am back from Specsavers lol !!

                                  The Birmingham Assay Office

                                  There you go, the official site of the assay office in Birmingham!


                                  Joanie

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    My sister has the rattle, and this is how she describes the mark as: "the base is probably a straight line, so it's a vertical line with a base that juts out equally on either side and a flat top that protrudes to the left."

                                    Does that help??

                                    Scuda
                                    Pitman / Pittman in North Glos (Didbrook, Prestbury, Longhope, Tewkesbury, Stow, Cirencester, etc), London & Australia

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Looking closely at the pic that Darksecretz gave us, the Hallmark year letter is not central on the shield as might be expected if it was a lower case 'l' or even an upper case 'I'.
                                      The letter appears to be slightly left of centre on the shield and to the right of the upright is, I believe, a faint vestige of the foot of an upper case 'L'.
                                      The shield is a square with 4 mitred corners and such a shield with such an upper case L would mean that it was hallmarked Birmingham in 1860. That would place this item firmly in the Victorian era.
                                      After this series of upper case letters, the next series of upper case letters at Birmingham was used 1925-1949, but did not include a letter I. The shields used for that series had a mitred top, like this one, but a triple pointed bottom.
                                      What a fabulous family heirloom.

                                      Merleyone

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Thanks for that merleyone. If you're right it could date back a couple of generations more than I'd thought. That would open up lots more possibilities, although they were nearly all ag labs so it's not the sort of object I picture belonging in their homes. As dating from the photo is proving difficult perhaps I shall have to take the rattle to a jeweller and see what they make of it.

                                        scuda
                                        Pitman / Pittman in North Glos (Didbrook, Prestbury, Longhope, Tewkesbury, Stow, Cirencester, etc), London & Australia

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