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TNA Divorce records query

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  • TNA Divorce records query

    I'm looking at two index entries in The Catalogue on the TNA website:

    J 77/790/4045 Divorce Court File: 4045. Appellant: Frederick John Horniman. Respondent: Minnie Louisa Horniman. Co-respondent: William Joseph Masser and Sir J Salter Pyne and Arthur Wickham Jarvis. Type: Husband's petition for divorce [HD]. 1903

    and

    J 77/787/3937 Divorce Court File: 3937. Appellant: Minnie Louisa Horniman. Respondent: Frederick John Horniman. Type: Wife's petition [WX]. 1903

    I know that FJ Horniman divorced his wife and that William Joseph Masser was the co-respondent, so who are Sir J Salter Pyne (I wonder if that should read Sir T Salter Pyne who was the only person I could find called Salter Pyne!) and Arthur Wickham Jarvis (which is probably also a mis-transcription as this name doesn't seem to exist anywhere else! lol). They look as if they are MORE co-respondents, but surely they can't be???
    Last edited by Merry Monty Montgomery; 11-07-08, 21:21.

  • #2
    Certainly seems to be more than 1 co-respondent quoted. Was her petition to counter his allegations, I wonder? (just noticed that the number of hers, though, was lower than his - don't know whether that is significant?)
    The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
    Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

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    • #3
      Looks like the husband was trying to say she has affairs with said 3 men while they were married.
      Fiona. xx

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      • #4
        Hmmmm.....so what else might I find out if I were to get a copy of the document?

        I can't believe this case isn't in The Times newspaper. FJH was an MP and his wife was over 40 years his junior! William Masser was FJH's secretary.

        When FJH died in 1906 there was no death notice in The Times nor an obituary. Very odd.

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        • #5
          Divorce records from TNA can be very illuminating- where the sordid events took place and when, plus background info regarding the marriage, but perhaps not much more. Depends what you want to know. Sounds, though as if there would be plenty of gory detail in this case! Perhaps FJH had his own secrets!
          The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
          Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

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          • #6
            Now you know me, Merry, always the cautious and reasoned approach, no jumping to wild conclusions.....

            wonder if he PAID his secretary to say he had had erm, carnal knowledge of Minnie?

            OC

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            • #7
              Thanks Ann, I will have a think about it. These poeple are very distant from me, but I am nosy! lol


              Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
              Now you know me, Merry, always the cautious and reasoned approach, no jumping to wild conclusions.....

              wonder if he PAID his secretary to say he had had erm, carnal knowledge of Minnie?

              OC
              Oooh!! She did marry Mr Masser afterwards (was she paid? lol), but waited until FJH was dead. Sometimes I wonder if the decree was ever made absolute? But if it wasn't, presumably these records wouldn't be there?

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              • #8
                So, do you want to order them from TNA, or would you like me to photo them next week? (If in excess of twenty pages, I'll let you know!)
                Phoenix - with charred feathers
                Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

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                • #9
                  Oooooooohhhhhh!!! I would LOVE you to at least have a look.

                  Thank you so much!!

                  Even if you just read them and let me know what you saw thet would be great!

                  *wonders how many pages there might be?!!* lol

                  *crosses everything*

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                  • #10
                    Oh, why let the facts spoil a good story!

                    It is obvious that Mr Masser married her, consumed with guilt over his false evidence on behalf of his employer, for a few pieces of silver.

                    OC

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                    • #11
                      The one I downloaded (via their Digital Express service) where my grandfather was named as co-respondent was well worth it. It had a copy of the couple's marriage certificate, plus info about their child, the address where the wife was living with my grandfather, the address where the couple had most recently lived and the address where the husband was living, and the grounds for divorce which were, um, she "habitually committed adultery with..."
                      There were only 4 pages.
                      KiteRunner

                      Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                      (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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                      • #12
                        Ill see what I can do, Merry. AS Kite says, there is lots of info, even with my pauper Skillings.

                        (Now I must cut down a few cobwebs before my guests arrive!)
                        Phoenix - with charred feathers
                        Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

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                        • #13
                          lol Phoenix.....I'd need a chain saw for mine!

                          Oh, why let the facts spoil a good story!
                          What a thing for a family historian to say!! lolol :D

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Merry Monty Montgomery View Post
                            I know that FJ Horniman divorced his wife and that William Joseph Masser was the co-respondent, so who are Sir J Salter Pyne (I wonder if that should read Sir T Salter Pyne who was the only person I could find called Salter Pyne!) and Arthur Wickham Jarvis (which is probably also a mis-transcription as this name doesn't seem to exist anywhere else! lol). They look as if they are MORE co-respondents, but surely they can't be???
                            Interesting. Did you ever find out if PYNE and JARVIS were co-respondents? My immediate thought was that they were the barristers and/or solicitors representing the parties involved. Then I found that PYNE did many things, but none of them obviously to do with the law. His Afghanistan escapade makes him sound quite a character!

                            I also came across a 1910 MASSER HORNIMAN car at THE MASS by T. C. Hudson and wonder if there was any connection. Seems an odd coincidence if not...

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                            • #15
                              Try Free Divorce Records Search
                              Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
                              Find Public Divorce Records

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