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James Bates, Sergeant 33rd Regiment of Foot

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  • James Bates, Sergeant 33rd Regiment of Foot

    I cannot find him anywhere on census, not even any family and nothing on IGI

    I have his marriage cert which shows in 1839 he was a Labourer.
    On his daughter's birth cert it shows Sergeant 33 rd Regiment of Foot and on her marriage cert in 1868 it states Sergeant in the Army.

    Mother Mary Ann Johnson was Minor on Marriage cert. Father of Mary Ann was Henry Johnson, Farmer

    Father James Bates was of full age. Father of James was a James, Labourer

    These two married 238 Oct 1839 Clapham in the County of York

    Daughter was Eliza Ann Bates, born 21 Aug 1846 Jail Lane, Halifax


    Now on A2A I have found this
    West Yorkshire Archive Service, Wakefield Headquarters
    Including account book of James Bates of the 33rd regiment of foot on service in India 1861-1868, ms notebook on arithmetic 1864 and register re families of Bates and Denison 1873-1963.

    Now as I cannot find the family I am wondering whether if this is my man and all the family went to India after Eliza was born, although she must have returned as she was married in Wigan.

    If anyone has the time can you look for the family in census
    OR any advice trying to find him in India,
    OR whether do you think it is worth contacting West Yorks to see if this is him.

    Dog's have Owners, Cats have Staff
    It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser

  • #2
    You may find that your man served in the 33rd Regiment during the Indian Mutiny. My Grt Grandfather was also in the 33rd Regiment and went to the Crimea as a corporal in 1852 and then on to quell the Indian Mutiny via Mauritius from 1857 to 1864 by which time he was a sergeant. Mine did not marry until 1865 when he was in Ireland with the 33rd. Do you know the year your ancestor disappeared and the years he resurfaced back in England. He may have had children out there but a look on the Regimental Indexes in Findmypast overseas section should help you trace any marriage or births. RI goes back to about 1780 and if he married in 1839 as a labourer he was possibly born/baptised around 1818 so could have fought in the Crimea. The attestation papers will tell you his place and date of birth. If you can get to Kew then worth a search as you know it is 33rd Regiment. These early army papers are not online. You will either have to pay for a search or go yourself. I have found my g gfather's 33rd Regt attestation records at Kew and then spent two days going through the army musters which gave me so much detail on where he was every minute of his 22 years in the army. He went to Mauritius first before going to India, where he was stationed at Lucknow, Poona, Benares, Allahabad, Deesa, Seetapore. If your ancestor was in the Crimea the 33rd was decimated at the Crimea and so he may have gone into another regiment for a while. Mine was also in the 48 Northants Regiment.

    You can google history of the 33rd, very interesting. It is a Yorkshire Regiment, though has its roots in Huntingdonshire under the Earl of Huntingdon. It amalgamated and came under Arthur Wellesleys (later Duke of Wellington) command in 1793. The account book sounds very intertsting and quite a possibility. Go after it!

    Janet
    Last edited by Janet; 01-07-08, 17:31.

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    • #3
      I should certainly be interested, in your situation. Even if it proves not to be "yours" it's likely to give you some insight into your man's life.

      Christine
      Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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      • #4
        Thanks both.
        Janet, I cannot find him and his family on any of the census. Eliza Ann just seems to reappear for her marriage in Wigan;).
        I would have to get someone to look for his papers in Kew.

        I think I will drop West Yorkshire an email giving them the details I know and see if any of it agrees.

        Dog's have Owners, Cats have Staff
        It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser

        Comment


        • #5
          Kew will do a search but I know it will not be cheap. Not on any census suggests strongly he was fighting in the Crimea and helping to quell the Indian Mutiny and that may well take care of the 1851 and 1861 census. If he is born/baptised around 1810 to 1820 and say joined the army after he married, around 1840 to 1845 would bring his army career to a close around about 1860 to 1865. They seemed to do two stints of 10 years. He may then have done other jobs within an army atmosphere, mine was in the North Lincs Militia for 4 years and then went to be an army prison warder for another 4 years. If he joined the army around 1840 then you would not find him on 1841census either, so on that basis 1871 Census coud be the earliest census you would find him, by which time he would be around 51 to 61. Have you found a death for him? does his daughter's marriage cert say that her father is deceased? Do you know where he was baptsed?

          Good luck with the details you have found on A2A. Let us know what happens.

          Janet

          Comment


          • #6
            Have you looked on this site:

            Asplin Military History Resources

            Kevin has a high reputation amongst those on here who've made use of his researching skills - from what I've read.

            Christine
            Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

            Comment


            • #7
              Most impressed with Wakefield

              I emailed Wakefield and have just had a reply, very quick.

              We have had a look at the records of the C98 collection of the Bates and Denison family. The connection between these 2 families was the marriage of a Hannah Bates to a William Denison in 1901, Hannah appearing to be the daughter of James Bates and wife unknown according to notes in the family register (ref C98/1/1).



              The brief personal details to be found in the account book 1858-68 of James Bates (ref C98/2/1) includes that he enlisted in the 33rd regiment of foot on 23 January 1858, age 18 years 8 months, born in the parish of Halifax, soldier number 106, next of kin give as father John of Ovenden. There is no reference to him being a Sergeant.



              Unfortunately his approximate date of birth means that he could not be the person you seek who married in 1839. And as his fathers name was given as John then it appears that he was not the son that may have followed his fathers footsteps into the army (?). I’m sorry we cannot be of more help to you at this time, but do contact us again if we can be of any other assistance.
              So at least I know this is not him.

              Dog's have Owners, Cats have Staff
              It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser

              Comment


              • #8
                Oh dear, I am so sorry because it looked really promising. Back to the drawing board. Not so sure I would accept their version that this James Bates is not a son of your Bates? Worth checking further. I have James that turn to John and vice versa, in Ireland mainly but you never know.

                Since finding my grt grandfather in 33 Regt I have also found that one of his brothers was also in the army, as well as two of his sons and further back two served in the Militia so you do get army families.

                Do have a look on Regimental Indexes on Findmypast, not terribly easy to negotiate, but worth a try. Can access for free, but have to pay when want more info. Depends how many Bates there are on Indexes for the time frame you are looking at. Could also try India IGI. I found some on that, but cannot now remember how you access for births and marriages. I had many who belonged to the East India Company and found them that way.

                Janet
                Last edited by Janet; 02-07-08, 18:17.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think this is the family refered to by the Wakefield RO

                  1851 census

                  HO107; Piece: 2298; Folio: 863; Page: 16

                  So not yours :o

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