Ancestry Look up, please

[Phoenix]

I'm doing some research for a friend on the Grant family.

William, born c 1836 (lol!) was a carver and gilder. A GR contact tells me his parents were probably James Grant, born Midlothian, Scotland and Rebecca Chapman.

She doesn't have his marriage to Charity Murphy (aka Cherry, aka Sarah) so I'm not sure how she knows his father's name.

James & Rebecca also had a son Thomas, born 1840. His birth certificate would provide mother's name, but she doesn't have this either.

Checking the Ancestry indexes, I can see that James, Rebecca, William & Thomas are a family unit in Shoreditch in 1851.

Could sks tell me the reference, if anyone else was in the household, and more particularly what James' occupation was?

I'm off to LMA on Saturday and will be checking various references from the IGI, but there are several William Grants of the right age and I am not entirely convinced that my contact has picked on the right one.

Also, is the marriage of James Grant to Rebecca Chapman on Pallots? It certainly doesn't appear to be on the IGI and it sounds as if she is working entirely from computer sources.

Many thanks!

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

1851 James was a shoemaker emp 4 men.

Just his wife and two sons in the house.

HO107; Piece: 1537; Folio: 218; Page: 23

[Jessbowbag]

James occ is one of those 'difficult ' ones

look like shoemaker employing ( something)

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

I wasn't sure if you meant she didn't have the marriage cert or also the marriage ref:

Marriages Jun 1858

Grant William Bethnal Gn 1c 556
Hughes James Bethnal Gn. 1c 556
Manlove Sarah Bethnal Gn 1c 556
Murphy Cherry Bethnal Gn. 1c 556

I see this is the family with Cerise :(:D

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

I can't see the James Grant/Rebacca Chapman marriage anywhere yet.......

[Phoenix]

Thank you, Merry and Jess!

Yes, it's Cerise's family! I am very gateful for Cerise. She means I can identify the later family in the censuses. But I find it difficult to be sure of the earlier part. I was hoping that James was also a carver and gilder.

I reckon that I'm going to have to bite the bullet and get that certificate for William and Cherry.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

I didn't notice James and Rebecca's ages in 1851 but in 1841 he is 45 (shoemaker), she is 35 and their eldest is James 15, so a marriage about the early to mid 1820's seems likely and I can't think wherelse someone could find a London marriage of that era online apart from the IGI or Pallots.

Anyway, that other marriage cert needs getting first, though I couldn't particularly see another William in 1851/41 who would be Cherry's husband in his youth!

[Phoenix]

That's brilliant, Merry! There are a couple of early births on the IGI jAMES gEORGE & gEORGE James, from memory that looked like the same family, but then this enormous gap until William and Thomas, which seemed a litle odd, unless she had several stillbirths in the middle.

Hopefully I can discover a little more about the sources of my contact's information. She finds me deeply suspicious because I use an alias on GR - which is quite reasonable. This site, where you can judge someone's credibility by past postings, gives a better guide to personality.

[KiteRunner]

I didn't notice James and Rebecca's ages in 1851 but in 1841 he is 45 (shoemaker), she is 35 and their eldest is James 15, so a marriage about the early to mid 1820's seems likely and I can't think wherelse someone could find a London marriage of that era online apart from the IGI or Pallots.

If they got married by licence then there are various databases on British Origins which might have it, and they also have Boyd's Marriage Index, not sure if that includes London stuff; also there is a marriage licence database on London Signatures.

[Phoenix]

And only a few days to go before the end of June for SoG users for their free 48 hrs. Thanks, KR, for reminding me!

I suspect that parts of this tree are done by Chinese Whispers and a few solid facts would be so nice!

I thought the marriage licence database was just Surrey, but I'll check that out too.