Marriage by licence

[vikki brace]

I have just been sent a copy of the marriage of one of my Great grandfathers (brain not working so can remember how many greats!)
Anyway he was married by Licence in 1772. their first son was born 6 months later so I guess the licence was quicker.

I know on marriage certs they state the age/full age but is there anyway of knowing or finding out the ages of the bride or groom pre-1837.

would the parish register entry comment that one was a minor?
I have a marriage bond for their son and his wife as she was 20 when they married and it is shows that her guardians consented to the marriage, and written on their PR entry is "of this parish, a minor with consent of Guardians". They married in the same church as his parents

Am I making any sense?

[KiteRunner]

It makes sense, Vikki, and I think the parish register entry *should* state if one of them was a minor, but one that someone very kindly looked up for me recently didn't say anything about them being minors when I am certain they were!

[vikki brace]

Thanks Kite, so really its a case of whether or not the vicar remembered. Great:(

[Phoenix]

Marriage licences often state ages, occupations, names of guardians, names of bondsmen. If they survive (and they don't always) they can be very informative. Generally, the early ones have far more info than the later ones (and the ages are usually rounded to the nearest decade!)

[Olde Crone Holden]

I have a curious one in my tree - married by Banns, bride 13, groom not quite 16. Nothing is said about parental consent, in a parish where the Vicar always carefully remarks that they are minors - he hasn't, in this case.

I can only assume he forgot to write it in - father of the groom paid the Vicar's stipend, so I am sure the Vicar would have been very careful to get parental permission.

I have the baptism of the groom and am quite sure of his birth year, if not exactly his birth date. His poor mother churned out a child a year and there wouldn't have been room between his baptism and the previous child for him to have been any older, if that makes sense.

(The above couple were married for 47 years and had 13 children, all of whom survived)

OC

[vikki brace]

Thankyou all, I will have to see if the licence still exists, maybe that will tell me a little bit more.

[Guy]

I have a curious one in my tree - married by Banns, bride 13, groom not quite 16. Nothing is said about parental consent, in a parish where the Vicar always carefully remarks that they are minors - he hasn't, in this case.

I can only assume he forgot to write it in - father of the groom paid the Vicar's stipend, so I am sure the Vicar would have been very careful to get parental permission.

snip
OC

Perhaps or perhaps he realised that consent was not required.
The period that consent was required for minors to marry was really very short.
It was introduced by the Marriage Act of 1753 and repealed by the Marriage Act of 1823, only 70 years in all.
Cheers
Guy

[Mary from Italy]

That's interesting, Guy - what happened after 1823? Minors could marry, or they couldn't marry at all, even with consent?

[Olde Crone Holden]

I got married at 20 and required my parents consent.

OC

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

I'm obviously misunderstanding as in The Times Digital Archive, all the details about the 1823 marriage act seem to state "Consent of parents required where parties are underage"

[KiteRunner]

I presume that it is this Act, here on Guy's pages:
alm1823

It's a bit late at night to read every word and take it in, but it certainly appears to mention parental consent, and says at great length what measures can be taken if minors marry without it - but there is one bit of it which seems to be letting vicars off the hook if they unwittingly marry minors without parental consent, after publishing banns which have not been objected to. Maybe that's what Guy is referring to?

[Olde Crone Holden]

Kate

I do know that lack of parental consent is not enough to void a church marriage, although I am not sure of the civil position?

Thinks: why did all those people run away to Gretna Green if you don't need parental consent as a minor?

EDIT - from my local Registration Office:

Persons under 18 years of age must submit written consent from the appropriate parent / guardian / authority. The Superintendent Registrar has forms for this purpose

OC

[KiteRunner]

We should probably try to read through that 1823 Act tomorrow and work out what it means!

[Olde Crone Holden]

Kate

I think it means "if you marry underage without consent, neither spouse will be allowed to gain any pecuniary advantage by so doing". It doesn't void the marriage though, and, to me, it is quite clearly saying you DO need consent.

I'll read it properly tomorrow.

OC

[Phoenix]

I cannot for the life of me remember the date at which some printed registers had the statement "with consent of parents" printed in them, but I suspect that it was the new ones that came in after the 1823 Act. What I do know is that some vicars covered themselves by not crossing out the phrase, even for the marriage of elderly widowers!

Life would be so much easier if vicars were consistent, but it is wonderful where they are not. I thank God fasting for my Norfolk ancestors and the vicars who crammed the information they always had acquired into the Rose's registers, while in Chulmleigh in Devon for a very brief period in the 1820s the marriage registers have addresses and occupations.

[Bo the Bodger]

Please excuse my lack of knowledge but under what age was considered to be a minor and when did it change? One of my 3xGt grandmother's married 12 days after her 18th birthday, had 17 children (14 to adulthood) and was married for 59yrs!

I also have two marriages for the same coouple: one was by banns in Dec 1908 and the other was by certificate in a registry office in a different part of the country in Nov 1909. Any suggestions why? He was a Sergeant in the Buffs.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

You were a minor until you reached 21. The age was reduced to 18.....erm.....in the 1950's or 1960's? I used to know, but have forgotten! lol

[Phoenix]

I think that in the army, you had to have permission of your commanding officer to get married. Have you looked for his army record? If next of kin are mentioned, there is usually a note of any marriage. It would be interesting to see which date was taken. I bet it was the later one. First marriage for the girl's family, second for the Colonel.

Okay, Merry, don't rub in how young you are! It was the 1960s, because I can remember Ted Heath coming to our school to give a speech just before the 1970 election. We were in his constituency and cynically we thought he was out to grab all those new first time voters (in the forms above me!)

[Guy]

You were a minor until you reached 21. The age was reduced to 18.....erm.....in the 1950's or 1960's? I used to know, but have forgotten! lol

1st January 1970. ;)
Cheers
Guy