Settlement Examinations

[Chris in Sussex]

Could they get away with lying.....Or not remembering the truth?

In 1819 William Elcock gives a detailed account of his 'right' to reside at Prittlewell Essex. He is aged 31 residing there with his wife Mary (born Glemsford Suffolk) and they married at Gillingham Kent, their son aged 2 was baptised at Glemsford. All this information has been confirmed from parish register entries.

In the examination William states his father, mother, sister and he were removed from Fobbing (upwards of 20 years previously) to Prittlewell and were acknowledged to be legally entitled to settle there. On the death of his father (who had returned to Fobbing) his mother received a weekly collection from the Prittlewell parish for his and his sister's support until his mother's remarriage.

William gained the right of settlement at Prittlewell as a result of the examination.

After research at the Essex RO I have now found that there are no removal returns for Fobbing or settlement returns for Prittlewell for the earlier Elcock family.

Also William's mother never left Fobbing and remarried there in 1792 to a Abraham Nunn, widower of Prittlewell!

Now I appreciate that William may only have given the information he thought he knew for the examination but wouldn't the examiners have, at the very least, checked back to see if the claim of 'collection' being paid to his mother was correct?

So my question is...

I know what criteria was used to establish a right to residency.....But what checks were made to ensure that the criteria was actually fulfilled? Did someone check parish registers, parish accounts ect?

Any ideas?

Many thanks

[Phoenix]

Very large parishes might have written poor law material up into large volumes, where it might remain intact to the present day. In smaller parishes, the odd piece of paper at the bottom of a parish chest might have been thrown away. I would think it more likely that the relevant documents have not survived, rather than he lied. The odds are that someone in the village would remember his removal.
I have also seen people being persistently removed from one parish, back to their place of settlement. Even on foot, one can move quite speedily from one parish to another in the same county. It is not easy to prove anyone lived their entire life in a place, even if on every document you find they are stated to be of that place.

[Phoenix]

Re-reading what you've said, if Dad had gone to Fobbing, surely wife went with him, and it was easier for all concerned if she got a bit of out relief paid by Prittlewell, but she lived in Fobbing, where she may have had friends?

[Chris in Sussex]

Thanks Phoenix for your reply

The settlement examination implies that the father returned to Fobbing and died but the wife stayed in Prittlewell where she remarried....Proved wrong by the parish entry for her marriage in Fobbing!

Now showing my ignorance....

Would out relief be paid by Prittlewell to a widow in Fobbing? Wouldn't they have washed their hands of her as she was resident in another parish and therefore would have waited for Fobbing to argue who was liable as and when she needed assistance?

[Phoenix]

Assuming the paperwork then existed, Prittlewell would have known that William's mother was their responsibilty, but it may have been cheaper all round if she stayed where she was and was paid an allowance by Prittlewell. Or even (I don't know the locality, so don't know distances involved) trotted back each week to collect it.

[Olde Crone Holden]

I too have seen removal and settlement orders where a family - or part of a family - were bounced back and forth between parishes like a rubber ball.

However, often common sense won out, and one parish would say to the other "we'll look after Joe Bloggs who is your responsibility if you look after Aggie Smith, who is ours".

I really very much doubt that anyone could lie and get away with it, as there would always be a follow up investigation.

Also, don't forget that people could live in another parish for 364 days before they needed a settlement cert - and then only if they fell on hard times. If they were managing to support themselves in their new parish, a blind eye would probably be turned.

OC

[Chris in Sussex]

Phoenix

10 miles between Prittlewell and Fobbing so probably not a likely weekly 'trot' to collect her dues....But then again, I guess, as the widow of an Ag Lab that distance may have meant nothing!

As I previously wrote the Essex Removal and Settlement records for this area are very few and far between and I haven't found anything else for this line :(

OC

William's father William was buried 19th August 1792 at Fobbing and his mother Sarah married again to Abraham Nunn (Widower of Prittlewell) 27 November 1792 at Fobbing.

I think that your suggestion re 364 days may well apply to Sarah though how Abraham Nunn (Widower) of Prittlewell, finds himself in Fobbing and therefore comes into the equation may well be a 'brick wall' of the making!

Many thanks to both you for your help.

[Little Nell]

Chris

10 miles as a distance to walk wouldn't have been thought of in the same way as we view it today. And you might be able to catch a lift from a carter for a consideration.

My gt x 3 grandfather was moved with his wife and 3 daughters to Aston Rowant in Bucks, when he moved to Stoke Poges in Bucks. He'd been married and living in Farnham Royal for years, but when they moved to SP (because they were living with father-in-law and the ceiling fell in and there wasn't enough room) he was "removed & conveyed" to AR, where he was born.

After a quarter sessions hearing, he was allowed to remain in SP, which is where he died much later.