TREE HELP NEEDED (ahhhh)

[treesa]

I would like very much someone's advice, someone who is much more experienced that little old me. TOTALLY

I have a marriage cert and a birth cert conflicting over the father's names.

Albert Edward Lawley on marr cert says father William, a baker.

Yet the birth cert, for which there was only one possibility, says father Samuel.

Now, again, I found Albert on 81 census in the workhouse school. All other birth possibilities were too young, and one other A E lawley died young too, so not mine.

Now I know you will say go with the marr cert, but I am not sure. Everything points to Samuel as the father. I have war pension records that tie in with location etc for a birth.

I have gone over and over this and still go down the same route. Yet the father's names conflict.

If anyone can advise me I would be very grateful.

thanks very much
regards,
treesa

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Hi treesa, you need to tell us more!

Maybe the birth cert is the wrong one bacause he wasn't registered or was registered with a different name? (was what went through my head on reading your first post)

Could you give the date/place of the marriage and the bride's name?

Also a census ref for the couple - the first one after their marriage would be good.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Hi treesa, you need to tell us more!

Maybe the birth cert is the wrong one because he wasn't registered or was registered with a different name? (was what went through my head on reading your first post)

Could you give the date/place of the marriage and the bride's name?

Also a census ref for the couple - the first one after their marriage would be good.

[treesa]

No census for after they were married. 1909 A E lawley marr Nellie Nichols.

[treesa]

All documents, marr birth, army say Albert Edward Lawley. 81 census just say Albert, but there were no other options that I could find.

[Harrys mum]

The father on the birth cert, for whatever reason, could be wrong.

I have one where the father is James and written as Joseph.

[treesa]

It is maybe just a coincidence but on Albert's birth cert father Samuel is a bread van driver, yet on his marr cert father William is a baker! As so far I have Albert on 81 91 census in the workhouse schools, I am maybe thinking he wasn't sure who his father was? I also can't find Samuel after 71, but wife Elizabeth is too in the workhouse. OF COURSE, if I have got this all right!!

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

If dad died young his first name might have got confused. The bread van driver/baker sounds good.

How old was Albert in 1909?

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Who was mum on the Birkenhead birth cert?

[treesa]

B OCT 1876, according to birth cert, so that would make him 32 on marr cert. He stated 31. But again, if he was in the workhouse, he may not have know exactly or may have altered his age, as his wife was younger. Doesn't say father deceased though on marr cert.

[treesa]

Sorry, didn't see the post, mother ELizabeth Turberville.

[treesa]

He was born New Brighton, registered Birkenhead, and lived not far from New Brighton, Wirral, so that's why I keep wondering why he said two different father's, as th info I have seems to fit.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

There's a Samuel Lawley in the same workhouse in 1881. He's aged 10.


Possibly same boy in 1871 aged 8mths has father Samuel (cart driver) and mother Elizabeth:

RG10; Piece: 3754; Folio: 164; Page: 75

Birthplace for Samuel in 1881 is Liscard Cheshire and the family are in Wallesey in 1871 (Poulton cum Seacombe) and place of birth is given as Liverpool, but the wokhouse record might refer to where the family were living when they were taken in. (possibly!)

[treesa]

Yes, that's what I have, for which I thought it was correct, even though Albert not born yet. And of course, other Lawley's in the workhouse, not on census 71, possibly siblings to Albert and Samuel. But when I got the certs, I was totally thrown, because of the conflicting father's.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

I think the father's name had been mis-remembered at the wedding!

I've just seen all the (likely) siblings in 1881.

[treesa]

If I had asked the birth cert to be checked for father William, they would have said, wrong cert. But there is no other birth reg.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Have you found a marriage for Lawley to Turberville? I can't find one - was hoping he might have more than one first name, though it's probably unlikely

[treesa]

Yes, that's what I was hoping for! Going back to the beginning I still go down the same route, having the certs and hopefully they are correct. Albert also passed down two names as middle names for his children, Elizabeth and May, And Rowland, poss brother, his mother Elizabeth had a brother Rowland. So it all seems to fit. Just thrown by the William!!

However Samuel had a brother William.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Don't know if you have tried here?

www.workhouses.org.uk - The Workhouse Web Site

At the bottom (Records) you could try Wirrell archives in case they can help establish these children were all siblings. If they are and several birth certs say the same parnts, then it's solved.

[treesa]

Yes married 1870 Kidderminster