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Don't know if I posted about this before but would like opinions

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  • Don't know if I posted about this before but would like opinions

    My gt gt uncle William Gray died 12 June 1878, I have his death cert. He was drowned at sea so the informant was the coroner.

    He married Sarah Ann Thompson in 1862. Since William was a fisherman he is at sea on 1871 census and then died 1878. Sarah is with their children.

    Birth cert for youngest child:

    birth ref: Laura Bertha T Gray
    22 December 1877, Row 80 Yarmouth.
    Father: blank. Mother: Sarah Ann Gray, formerly Thompson.
    Informant: Sarah Ann Gray, mother, Row 80 Yarmouth. 29th January 1878.

    Now if Sarah's husband was still alive why didn't she put him as father on her child's birth cert?
    ~ with love from Little Nell~
    Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

  • #2
    I'd say he wasn't named because he wasn't the father.

    Cheers

    Jay
    Jay

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    • #3
      Because of a mis-understanding at the registrars?

      Because her husband wasn't the father and he knew it and wouldn't allow his name on the cert?

      Erm....because.......thinking......did you get the cert from the GRO?

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes, I did. But the father is assumed to be the mother's husband and he wouldn't know what she'd put on the cert, unless he went with her, which I think unlikely.

        I would imagine most women would rather pretend and give their illegitimate child a father even if its wrong, rather than label them.
        Laura appears to have Thompson as a middle name,but used Gray as a surname on censues. I guess William being dead he wasn't in a position to object.
        ~ with love from Little Nell~
        Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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        • #5
          I may be totally wrong ... but at one time didn't the father have to agree to being named on a cert? If he was away at sea, he couldn't.
          Bridget

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          • #6
            Did Laura marry & name a father on the cert?
            Jay

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            • #7
              I thought a father only had to agree IF he wasn't married to the mother. I thought married men were always assumed to be father to wife's children.
              ~ with love from Little Nell~
              Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

              Comment


              • #8
                JayG

                She did marry, I haven't got the cert. But if she put "William Gray, fisherman (deceased)" it wouldn't mean he was, and if it was left blank, I'm no wiser.

                I was wondering if William and Sarah had separated, but if so what she was living on.

                She's the lady that married a chap who appears to be already married, and then appears on 1901 census with this chap's surname saying she's a widow, though he was still alive!!!
                ~ with love from Little Nell~
                Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                • #9
                  Fair enough Little Nell, that is probably true, I am having yet another senior moment!
                  Bridget

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                  • #10
                    Well for what it's worth if NO father was given on her marriage cert then I would take that to mean William Gray wasn't her father.
                    Jay

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Little Nell View Post
                      he wouldn't know what she'd put on the cert, unless he went with her, which I think unlikely.
                      He would know what she had said when she got home with a copy of the cert!!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Merry Monty Montgomery View Post
                        He would know what she had said when she got home with a copy of the cert!!
                        but if they were poor they wouldn't have paid for the full cert and just got the free "short" version which doesn't mention parent's names.

                        Tom

                        Remembering: Cuthbert Gregory 1889 - 1916, George Arnold Connelly 1886 - 1917, Thomas Lowe Davenport 1890 - 1917, Roland Davenport Farmer 1885 - 1916, William Davenport Sheffield 1879 - 1915, Cuthbert Gregory 1918 - 1944

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                        • #13
                          Yes, but if he was the sort of man to lay down the law and she had already brought disgrace on him by having another man's child, she would hardly argue, would she?!! If he said his name was not to go on, she probably wouldn't take the risk.

                          (sorry, don't mean to cast aspersions on your rellies Nell! lol)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Little Nell View Post
                            JayG

                            She did marry, I haven't got the cert. But if she put "William Gray, fisherman (deceased)" it wouldn't mean he was, and if it was left blank, I'm no wiser.

                            What if it said "Joe Bloggs, milk carrier"?? lol

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                            • #15
                              Is there a line through the box which should show the father's name?
                              If not maybe it just wasn't filled in by the registrar ....
                              Bridget

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by BridgetM View Post
                                Is there a line through the box which should show the father's name?
                                If not maybe it just wasn't filled in by the registrar ....
                                Or it wasn't filled in when the registrar made his GRO copy.

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                                • #17
                                  Merry - well if it does say Joe Bloggs I shall curse!

                                  Thanks for your ideas chaps.

                                  I think it was just left blank, I don't have it to hand at the moment.

                                  This William is the chap whose aunt Elizabeth had two illegitimate children, 12 years apart. Eldest, Octavian (no idea why she chose that name, but he was easy to trace) is with Elizabeth's parents in 1851 and with her brother John in 1861. No father named on his birth cert and have not yet found baptism. The younger child, Mary Timbers Gray, was baptised when she was 5. Her father is named on her cert as "Samuel Timbers, gentleman's butler" (as though there is a beggar's butler!). Have found a Samuel Timbers, who is married, but he isn't a butler. Mary is with her aunt Mary in 1861 and with her grandparents in 1871.
                                  ~ with love from Little Nell~
                                  Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Just a thought, Nell. The death certificate of the drowned man - presumably they estimated the date? Or at least knew when the boat/man was lost?

                                    What I'm getting at is - might he have died much earlier and his body been found later? If he had been missing for months she might have not wanted to put his name on.

                                    You can see I'm waffling here ....*skulks off into the corner!*

                                    Anne

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