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....chrissiebee!!!!
Well done Chris
Well done Chris
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congratulations,brenda xxx -
Hi Folks,
Oh my Gawd, where do I start? Give me a minute to get my thoughts and priorities together, but I reckon this is gonna be a toughie as I have struggled for four years to find this person and half her kids!
ChrisComment
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*tiptoes away from thread*Comment
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Right Folks,
It's probably best to start with the family on the 1861. William Pudney (b. 1824) and missus Rachael (b. 1824). RG9/795, Reg. Dist. Edmonton. Folio 38, page 28.
William Pudney was born 1 June 1823 in Little Baddow, Essex, and died 8 November 1870 in Brickfields, West Green, Tottenham. Wife Rachel Willis was born 4 June 1819 in Henley-on-Thames, Oxon and died on 29 October 1908 in Edmonton Union Workhouse, Edmonton, Middx.
Somebody got mixed up with their kiddliwinks birth years with two of 'em having different first names! On the 1861 you will see a George Pudney (son) who actually turned out to be a James Benjamin Pudney (correct parents) and John Pudney (son) turned out to be William Pudney (again correct parents). I have the birth certs for these two, and also two other sons, Harry and Edward Pudney are also correct.
I now have two major problems i.e.: I cannot find the births of a son Charles Pudney (b. circa 1852 in Tottenham) and daughter Louisa (b. circa 1857 in Camberwell).
The second brickwall, which really is holding me up, is the marriage date and location of William Pudney and Rachel Willis. I have tried umpteen permutations and spelling variations to no avail. Help, please!
ChrisComment
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Come right back here, woman! I need your expertise, believe me!!Originally posted by Merry Monty Montgomery View Post
ChrisComment
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I wondered if this might be relevant, in case Rachel had been married before:
Marriages Jun 1846
Baynham Mary Newington 4 401
Coombes Elizabeth Newington 4 401
Garland John Newington 4 401
King Ralph Newington 4 401
Mansbridge Mary Ann Newington 4 401
Munns Zachariah Newington 4 401
Pudney William Newington 4 401
SLATER Rachael Newington 4 401
but I can't find a Rachel Willis-Slater marriage.
Have you found her on the 1851 census?Comment
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Possible birth for Charles:
Births Dec 1854
Pudney Charles St Pancras 1b 1Comment
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This is the only possible I can see for Louisa, but it doesn't match very well, and it can't be right if the above birth for Charles is correct (too close together):
Births Mar 1855
Pudney Louisa Ann Lexden 4a 256Comment
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This is where it gets complicated, Mary. I cannot find a Rachel/Rachael Willis on the 1851, but I did find a 'Ratchel Nightongate', born Henley on Thames and the right age. She was living at West Green, Edmonton, married to a James Nightongate, along with a son 'Charles' who was born in Tottenham and 3 months old. Look at HO107, Piece 1702, Folio 486, Page 16.Originally posted by Mary from Italy View Post
I promptly thought that Rachel had married this guy James, was soon widowed perhaps, and then married William Pudney. The kiddliwink then took on the surname of Pudney. But no - I found the death of a James Nightingale in Edmonton in 1851 (no age given) so sent off for this death cert, assuming it was her hubby. Nope - this was a son of James & Rachel Nightingale (spelt properly this time) also called James, who died at 6 months of age.
Back to square one.....LOL!Comment
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Ooh! I don't know how it fits, but it must be significant:
Marriages Dec 1850
Chapman William Shoreditch 2 461
Cruft John Shoreditch 2 461
Honychurch Amelia Shoreditch 2 461
May Mary Charlotte Shoreditch 2 461
Moore Sophia Shoreditch 2 461
Newberry Samson Shoreditch 2 461
Newberry Samuel Shoreditch 2 461
Nightingale James William Shoreditch 2 461
Randall Joseph Shoreditch 2 461
Willis Rachel Shoreditch 2 461Comment
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Yes, I leapt when I saw that last year, so promptly sent off for the cert. Both James William Nightingale and Rachel Willis were 'full age', he a labourer and she a servant. Father's name were James Nightingale (labourer) and James Willis (farrier).Originally posted by Mary from Italy View Post
ChrisComment
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Where did you find Rachel's birth? I can't see her on the IGI, and she's a bit younger in the 1861 census (which matches the age of Rachel Nightingale in 1851).Comment
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I wonder if James William Nightingale and William Pudney are the same person?
Their birthplaces are very close together, and it seems a very big coincidence to have a wife Rachel from Henley, son Charles from Tottenham, and two different husbands born within a few miles of each other.Comment
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No, I can't find her on the IGI either. Somebody, many moons ago, found her baptism at the Parish Records, Henley. She was born on 4 June 1819, baptised on 30 June 1819, and her parents were James Willis (blacksmith) and mother Sarah. Now, there is a marriage between a James Willis and a Sarah Coppock in 1806 in Woolwich, Kent, but I think that's a bit far fetched..Originally posted by Mary from Italy View Post
ChrisComment
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I can't be sure of the above info until I can find her bloomin' marriage to William Pudney. The three birth certs I have tracked down so far, which are correct, have mother down as Rachel Pudney, formerly Willis.
It is so maddening, as I know where William was from 1841 until his death in 1870, and I have Rachel on every blinkin' census until her death at 90 years of age in 1908.
Rachel (not to mention a number of little herberts) is a real thorn in my side........:(
ChrisComment
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I don't think that Charlie Boy is the right one, as I have the birth cert for Harry Pudney, born 9 May 1854 in Camberwell. That one's correct, for sure. What a nightmare....!Originally posted by Mary from Italy View Post
ChrisComment
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Farrier and blacksmith are very, very similar occupations...Comment
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There are three James Nightingale deaths between 1852 and 1861:
Deaths Dec 1852
NIGHTINGALE James Uxbridge 3a 19
Deaths Sep 1858
Nightingale James St. Geo. Han. Sq. 1a 139
Nightingale James William Bethnal GN 1c 189
I take it you got the cert for James William? Might be worth checking out the St. Geo Han Sq. death.
You'll probably also need to look at parish records at some point. You can order the microfilms from your nearest LDS centre.Comment
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It certainly wouldn't surprise me if Rachel did marry this Nightingale bod, was widowed soon after, and then married William Pudney fairly smartish. However, I cannot find a marriage either between a Pudney and Nightingale, or perhaps even if she reverted back to her 'former' name of Willis. The mystery is that she appears on all of the birth of her kids with William P. as 'formerly Willis'.
Believe it or not, I have been desperate to find this marriage between Rach & Billy Boy that I have gone through the entire 'P's, year by year, quarter by quarter. What a sad person I am, but it has really bugged me. Same feeling I have when trying to winkle out their little herberts. Grrr!
ChrisComment
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