London Geog Birth Reg Help Needed pls

[Darksecretz]

Can someone guide me as to which reg dist the son's birth would be under. Once I have his birth, I can then look to finding his death. (but will probably never find his grave, as the parish records, burials I think it was, for the church in question got burnt in a fire in 1907)

I know this would seem like an easy task, but at the moment I am having a bit of a "foggy head" day...

1). Daughter born 04 sept 1868 and reg'd Kensington. (Barracks near?) (but registered under fathers name, as parents werent married but mother registers birth as "Ann Brown, formally Larkin, Mother)
2). Parents Marry 20 sept 1869 @ Tower of London (St. Peter Ad Vincula)
3). William - son born OND (q4) 1870 in London. (age is given as 6 months on the 1871 census). Class: RG10; Piece: 3479; Folio: 26; Page: 46


Silly question, where If anywhere, would be local for his birth to be registered?

At the time of marriage William Brown Sr. (Groom) was based at Windsor Barracks.
Bride, - Ann Larkin was living in Kensington, (presumably at Camden Place, Notting Hill, POB for Adaline - daughter)

Potential Reg's for William Brown Jr.

Q4.
Woolwich.
Wandsworth.
Islington.
Holborn.
anyone got any bright ideas???

[Little Nell]

Well "London" could mean anything, but I would be inclined to disregard Woolwich and Wandsworth as they are south of the river.

Husband has lots of rellies from Holborn & Islington who put "London" (as well as Clerkenwell, St Lukes and other places1 Holborn and Islington border eachother.

As the family are in Nottinghamshire in 1871 that's not much of a clue!

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Is William on any other census?

Once I have his birth, I can then look to finding his death.

Erm.....how will his birth cert help? Presumably you think he died before 1907?

[Darksecretz]

Well "London" could mean anything, but I would be inclined to disregard Woolwich and Wandsworth as they are south of the river.

Husband has lots of rellies from Holborn & Islington who put "London" (as well as Clerkenwell, St Lukes and other places1 Holborn and Islington border eachother.

As the family are in Nottinghamshire in 1871 that's not much of a clue!

Nope, it isnt Nell, William came from Kirkby in Ashfield, and had returned home with his wife and young family after being pensioned out of the gren guards.. due to ill health.

Is William on any other census?

No :(


Erm.....how will his birth cert help? Presumably you think he died before 1907?

Yep, I think he died before 1881 cens. So is a 10yr window to work on, (as he isnt with his Mother and Step father on the 1881 cens)

[Little Nell]

I suppose his Grenadier Guards records don't list all the places he was stationed?

I guess next step is to look at 1881 census and see if you can eliminate the other William Brown births - ie if you find one who says he was born somewhere in Wandsworth that would rule him out.

[Darksecretz]

erm, no Nell they dont :(

They don't really tell me a fat lot, (except that they did enable me to get William Sr's birth cert) ho hum...

I would like to get his (Jr's) birth/death certs as he was my gt grannies brother.

just sad that I know so little about this side of my family and have no photographs either.

[samesizedfeet]

Personally I'd go for Woolwich as there's been barracks there for centuries. You could have a google and see which regiments they housed.

[samesizedfeet]

As for the Kensington registration there are barracks in Chelsea so they would be near by.


THis page lists institutions in 1881 and registration districts where known. They class barracks as an institution:

Victorian London Public Institutions

[KiteRunner]

I thought I would look to see what district their marriage was in, but I can't see it at all!

When the new GRO index comes out, you will be able to see mother's maiden name, but I don't suppose you want to wait that long! I suppose you could put it in as a reference check?

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Personally I'd go for Woolwich as there's been barracks there for centuries. You could have a google and see which regiments they housed.

I would agree, but there is a death for a William in the same Q (Q4 1870) and no other births in the previous year for a William Brown in Woolwich district without a middle name. Doesn't make the birth and death have to be for the same child, but just something to consider!

[Darksecretz]

Personally I'd go for Woolwich as there's been barracks there for centuries. You could have a google and see which regiments they housed.

As for the Kensington registration there are barracks in Chelsea so they would be near by.


THis page lists institutions in 1881 and registration districts where known. They class barracks as an institution:

Victorian London Public Institutions

Hmmm yes, my knowledge of London is very poor though.

I thought I would look to see what district their marriage was in, but I can't see it at all!

When the new GRO index comes out, you will be able to see mother's maiden name, but I don't suppose you want to wait that long! I suppose you could put it in as a reference check?

marriage was in Whitechapel Kate... here is the ref...

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BUT

I have just come across some very disturbing information.... which could mean that I have gone badly terribly wrong.

I would agree, but there is a death for a William in the same Q (Q4 1870) and no other births in the previous year for a William Brown in Woolwich district without a middle name. Doesn't make the birth and death have to be for the same child, but just something to consider!

I feel that as William Jr was alive and kicking in 1871 cens, that he will have croaked and been buried up here in Kirkby in Ashfield, Possibly buried with his father, (as he died, in 1873).

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

possibles?:

Deaths Sep 1871
Brown William 0 Basford 7b 65


Deaths Jun 1873
BROWN William aged 2 Basford 7b 59

Was Ann and 2nd OH in the same district in 1881?

[Darksecretz]

ok,

Problem.

I have just found "another" William Brown/Ann Larkins marriage

This one is in Kensington, BUT is in 1865, So that would tie in with Adalines birth cert and the mother already being married.

I have a real nasty feeling that this is the correct cert, and I have gone wrong.... I just dont know what to do,

the 1869 marriage states Fob, as MATTHEW LARKIN/S Labourer.

her 2nd marriage (after william dies)

1876 marriage states FOB, MATTHEW LARKIN/S Labourer (and this was in Kirkby in Ashfield)


anyone want a headache???

[Darksecretz]

possibles?:

Deaths Sep 1871
Brown William 0 Basford 7b 65


Deaths Jun 1873
BROWN William aged 2 Basford 7b 59

Was Ann and 2nd OH in the same district in 1881?

yep

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which would be Basford, and I had begun looking at those as well Merry (the deaths that is)... but dint get very far,

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

What about William's father? Did that match up OK too from the 1869 marriage cert?

You know you are going to have to get the other one?!!! You could order it with the checking point that you don't want it if the fob isn't Matthew Larkins, but that won't work because you will always be wondering is the GRO clerk was having a bad day and didn't read the cert properly! lol

[KiteRunner]

Soldiers did sometimes have to marry their wife all over again if the first marriage hadn't been authorised by the army, so it may turn out that both marriages are in fact for the same couple. Let's hope so!

[Darksecretz]

possibles?:

Deaths Sep 1871
Brown William 0 Basford 7b 65


Deaths Jun 1873
BROWN William aged 2 Basford 7b 59

Was Ann and 2nd OH in the same district in 1881?

What about William's father? Did that match up OK too from the 1869 marriage cert?

You know you are going to have to get the other one?!!! You could order it with the checking point that you don't want it if the fob isn't Matthew Larkins, but that won't work because you will always be wondering is the GRO clerk was having a bad day and didn't read the cert properly! lol

erm, not sure what you mean about the cert matching it was his widow Ann Larkins that re married.. or am I having a fuzzy day again?

but Williams dad "another William" (groans) was a FWK (which was Williams occupation before he joined the guards)

(and YES I will have to order that cert, cos it is gonna BUG the heck out of me IF I dont)

Soldiers did sometimes have to marry their wife all over again if the first marriage hadn't been authorised by the army, so it may turn out that both marriages are in fact for the same couple. Let's hope so!

ooooo I didnt know that... but surely they wouldnt Lie? to the person doing the marrying? (states spinster/batchelor respectively) on 1869 that is.


edit...

and I have never found either of them on the 1861 cens grrrr (William and Ann that is)

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

erm, not sure what you mean about the cert matching it was his widow Ann Larkins that re married.. or am I having a fuzzy day again?

but Williams dad "another William" (groans) was a FWK (which was Williams occupation before he joined the guards)

That's what I meant! ....In my earlier post I meant: "Have you found William (who married Ann Larkins) with his father in earlier censuses and do the father's details match with the marriage cert you already have for him?"

I agree about some army marriages being performed twice, though I've never actually come across it before, I have read about it!

[KiteRunner]

Julie, I think it would have made it too complicated if they filled in the form and put "married" rather than spinster and bachelor - I haven't actually got any of those repeat marriage certs in my collection to check, but I would think it very likely that it would be filled in as though they hadn't married before.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Someone who researched repeat marriages (found maybe around 50 couples) only found one where they didn't have the same Condition at the second ceremony as at the first and the same name given for the bride on both occasions!