I know you like something interesting to do :)

[Heather Positive Thinker]

A chap on GR has this lot to sort. He says that his GGF was Frederick Samuel Bellamy (apparently on marriage cert in 1905 as deceased, no occupation). He believes said Fred married or didnt marry an Ellen Jane Neal (no idea where the Neal came from - no reply as yet).

Now here are the boys in 1901 - William 1888 born Exeter - this chaps GF and his bro Fred. This Charles Gard is married to their mother Ellen Jane listed. Only death I can find of a possible Fred Bellamy in Devon is in 1902, so well after Ellen Jane Bellamy married Charles Gard in 1892.

Frederick Bellamy 17
Willie Bellamy 13
Charles Gard 38
Ellen J Gard 42
Ellen J Gard 8

I have found both boys marrying in 1905 and 1906 respectively but I cant see their births. The poster feels Ellen may not have married the father Frederick Samuel but bit strange that he cant find any of them in the 1891.

Anyone want a go?? Im up to my eyes with stuff here and I dont have proper access to anything other than freebmd. Theres a possible unmarried Fred born Exeter and in Exeter workhouse in the 1891.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

This should be the birth of William's brother:

Name: Frederick Samuel Bellamy
Year of Registration: 1884
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Exeter
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 79

[Jessbowbag]

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 1688; Folio 53; Page 37; GSU roll: 6096798.
1891
appears to be Ellen Neal with appropraite kids

Ellen Neal 30
Frances Neal 48
Frances Neal 10
Fred Neal 7
Henry Neal 44
Maud Neal 14
Willie Neal 4

Ellen is listed as Henrys dau, possible, but I wonder

[Tom Tom]

It's tricky this one...

I would suggest he gets Samuel Frederick Bellamy's (Jnr) birth cert.

OND 1884 Exeter 5b 79

[Tom Tom]

This looks like Ellen in 1881

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 2150; Folio: 98; Page: 25;

Elizabeth Neal 13
Ellen J. Neal 24
Frances Neal 46
Maud E. Neal 3

[Jessbowbag]

Ellen Jane Bellamy 1892 Apr-May-Jun Exeter Devon
Charles Henry Gard

cant see when she changed Neal to Bellamy though

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

When Ellen was Mrs Gard she was listed as aged 42.

I think she may have been born a Bellamy:

Births Dec 1855
Bellamy Ellen Jane Exeter 5b 73

I think this is her parents marriage:

Marriages Jun 1854
Bellamy William Thomas Exeter 5b 174
Gould John Blackford Exeter 5b 174
Norman Frances Sophia Exeter 5b 174
Reynolds Ann Exeter 5b 174


Then her mother, Frances, married (Matthew) Henry Neal:

Marriages Dec 1867
BELLAMY Frances Sophia Exeter 5b 168
MANNERING George Henry Exeter 5b 168
NEAL Matthew Henry Exeter 5b 168
STACEY Eliza Jane Exeter 5b 168

and later, Ellen married Mr Gard (as posted by Jess)

So, if someone could tie this up with censuses, I'd be grateful as they are being difficult! pmsl

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Or, that could be a load of old ***** as I can't see a death for William T Bellamy!

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

and perhaps Frances is a bit young to have married in 1854?

[Heather Positive Thinker]

Hi there, thanks people. I cant make head nor tale. The thing is the chap did mention he wasnt sure if she was a Neal or a Bellamy so Im sure you are right there Merry. Do we reckon the Bellamy husband never existed?

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Indeed!!

I would say to him not to worry about what is what until after he has got that birth cert (or one for William B if he can identify it)

These people are all over the place with their ages, so it would be better to get something concrete before starting!

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Oh, and he needs the marriage cert to Mr Gard, in case there are lies on the birth record! lol

[Heather Positive Thinker]

All seems very dodgey doesnt it

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

I keep trying to disprove post #7 but it's not working!

FRANCES SOPHIA NORMAN
Birth:
Christening: 22 MAY 1831 Saint Sidwell, Exeter, Devon
Parents:
Father: HENRY NORMAN
Mother: MARIA
Messages: Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.

1841, Frances Norman aged 10:
HO107; Piece 268; Book: 2; Civil Parish: St Sidwell; County: Devon; Enumeration District: 2; Folio: 11; Page: 16; Line: 8

1851, Frances Norman aged 20 (indexed as aged 10)
HO107; Piece: 1868; Folio: 45; Page: 19

Marriages Jun 1854
Bellamy William Thomas Exeter 5b 174
Norman Frances Sophia Exeter 5b 174

Births Dec 1855
Bellamy Ellen Jane Exeter 5b 73

Possible death for William Thomas Bellamy:
Deaths Mar 1860
Bellamy William Exeter 5b _0

1861, Fanny Bellamy (widow b 1831) with dau Jane (not Ellen Jane) and with Frances' father, Henry Norman.
RG9; Piece: 1394; Folio: 113; Page: 10

Next Frances remarries:

Marriages Dec 1867
BELLAMY Frances Sophia Exeter 5b 168
NEAL Matthew Henry Exeter 5b 168

1871, Fanny with Ellen and younger dau Betsy aged 3, later to be called Elizabeth. Mr Neal isn't at home. They are all called Neal.
RG10; Piece: 2062; Folio: 55; Page: 49

1881, Fanny and Ellen as already posted. All called Neal.
RG11; Piece: 2150; Folio: 98; Page: 25

Birth of Ellen's son:
Name: Frederick Samuel Bellamy
Year of Registration: 1884
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Exeter
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 79

I can't see William's birth.......

1891, Fanny and Ellen and Neal family as already posted. All called Neal.
RG12; Piece: 1688; Folio 53; Page 37

Ellen Bellamy marries Charles Henry Gard, using her birth name
Marriages Jun 1892
Bellamy Ellen Jane Exeter 5b 224
Gard Charles Henry Exeter 5b 224

Frances dies:
Deaths Dec 1897
Neal Frances 63 Exeter 5b 55 (she should be 66)

Matthew Henry (forgets his first name and) remarries:

Marriages Jun 1898
Goard Philippa Exeter 5b 188
Neal Henry Exeter 5b 188

1901, They are together and Matthew has remembered his first name!
RG13; Piece: 2041; Folio: 44; Page: 24

1916 Matthew dies:
Deaths Sep 1916
Neal Matthew H 68 Exeter 5b 100

[Heather Positive Thinker]

You are brilliant Merry so it looks like Fred Samuel Bellamy is a pretend dad on the marriage cert?

Ill report to the guy.

[Phoenix]

I don't fancy doing this with an Exeter registration district, as there will be oodles of them, but it would be worth checking for a baptism.

One rellie, daughter of Joanna Fry, quoted her father as Zachariah Fry. The Zacharaiah was correct, but Dad was Z Horne.

Dad might yet prove to be Frederick Samuel - just not FS Bellamy.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Dad might yet prove to be Frederick Samuel - just not FS Bellamy.

Very good point! lol

[Heather Positive Thinker]

But which Fred Samuel? Ive added all your input to the chap and suggested he comes over here.

[Heather Positive Thinker]

The one thing that occurred to me was when the boys are with the Gard family in 1901 they are listed as visitors - not in laws?

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Would that be because they had previously been treated as siblings of their mother (at least I think they had!) which would possibly mean defining their exact relationship in 1901 might cause ructions in the house? Or, maybe it was down to how the enumerator asked the Q?