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Who is Rebecca Butcher? 1841

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  • Who is Rebecca Butcher? 1841

    I've been going round in circles with this -

    From the IGI I have the following children of Joseph Butcher and Mary (poss. Underhay) baptised at either St Leonard's, Shoreditch or Christchurch, Spitalfields

    Ann Miram b1819
    James Joseph b1821
    Mary b1824
    Elizabeth b1831 d. abt 1832
    John b 1831
    Elizabeth b1833

    John states on his marriage cert that his father was a shoemaker which tallies with the parish records for this family. In later census' John claimed to have been born in Spitalfields.

    The only family that I can find in 1841 that looks likely is here
    Class: HO107; Piece 659; Book: 1; Civil Parish: Old Artillery Ground; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 8; Folio: 29; Page: 11; Line: 15; GSU roll: 438776.

    Ann, Mary and James Joseph would appear to have left home (although I know that Ann and Mary didn't marry until 1843). Elizabeth and John are with the family but who is Rebecca?

    The only Rebecca Butcher born 1826 showing on the IGI has Joseph and Jane as parents. The children either side of 1826 all had Mary as mother.
    I considered the possibility that Rebecca might be a niece but as I don't know Joseph's parentage I can't prove that either.
    Do you think that this "my family". And any ideas what to make of Rebecca?

    I hope this makes sense....

    Thanks
    Sue

  • #2
    Before we can decide if they are "your" family, who are you descended from?
    ~ with love from Little Nell~
    Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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    • #3
      Batch that has Rebecca's baptism (parents Joseph & Jane) also has
      Matilda bap 1827 d. 1829 dau of James & Mary Butcher
      William bap 1829 son of Nathaniel & Elizabeth Butcher

      I know St Leonards Shoreditch was a vast parish, with pages for each day in their baptism registers, so highly likely there were several Butcher families. They may be related, or not. Chances are Rebecca is related to James.
      Perhaps Jane and Mary were really Mary Jane? I have instances of the same mother being recorded differently in both baptism registers and censuses. Or you may have the wrong Joseph.
      ~ with love from Little Nell~
      Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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      • #4
        Nell, thanks for looking at this!

        John, b1831 is my gt gt grandfather. On his marriage cert on of the witnesses was Annie Potts married name of Ann Miram Butcher the eldest sister. (Her marriage is on Free BMD but husbands surname is mis transcribed as Patts, the other sister Mary married another Potts on the same day!) Which led me to believe that the family on IGI is the correct one.
        Sue

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        • #5
          I did wonder if Mary and Rebecca were the same person, its hard to tell with the 1841 age thing! I hadn't seen the other Butcher births in that batch - it's quite possible that they are all related - but it is quite a common name:(
          Sue

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          • #6
            Sue

            I will take another look later. I'm a bit sleepy at the moment (heavy lunch!)
            ~ with love from Little Nell~
            Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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            • #7
              Okay, thanks Nell! Enjoy your nap!

              I've found on the IGI a Joseph Butcher (st Luke's 1783 ) and a James Butcher (St katherine's by the Tower 1785) born to a Theophilus Butcher and Rebecca (I'd really like a Theophilus in my tree!!) So it seems possible that one of them might be Rebecca (1826) father. But 'my' Joseph, according to 1841 census was b abt 1796 - I know that there is normally a variation in ages on the 1841 but is 13 years a trifle too much??
              Sue

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              • #8
                hallo Sue

                It's so difficult with common names (apart from Theophilus!), and easy to try to fit the facts. On the other hand, I found a whole raft of husband's Jewish family in Whitechapel in 1841 who were 20 years older than they should have been!

                Plus, of course, YOUR Butchers may not have their parish records transcribed on the IGI>
                ~ with love from Little Nell~
                Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                • #9
                  Just to add confusion:

                  THEOPHILUS BUTCHER Pedigree
                  Male


                  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Event(s):
                  Birth: 28 OCT 1795

                  Christening: 15 NOV 1795 Saint Luke Old Street, Finsbury, London, England
                  Parents:
                  Father: ROBERT BUTCHER
                  Mother: ELIZABETH
                  Source Information: Batch No.: C020692
                  ~ with love from Little Nell~
                  Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                  • #10
                    I think my problem with Rebecca is that Joseph and Mary had all their other children baptised (Ann was done twice!) and I can't see why, if this is the same family, they wouldn't have had her done too!

                    I've found a marriage in Jan 1851 of a Rebecca Butcher to a Frederick Amey. In the 1851 census she says she was born in Bishopsgate in 1830 which is close enough in London as you know! So I think I'll have to send off for that cert to see if that gives me any clues!

                    THanks again
                    Sue

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Little Nell View Post
                      Just to add confusion:

                      THEOPHILUS BUTCHER Pedigree
                      Male


                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Event(s):
                      Birth: 28 OCT 1795

                      Christening: 15 NOV 1795 Saint Luke Old Street, Finsbury, London, England
                      Parents:
                      Father: ROBERT BUTCHER
                      Mother: ELIZABETH
                      Source Information: Batch No.: C020692


                      Another branch of the family? I'm not going down that route until I'm a bit more certain that they're the right ones!!!
                      Sue

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                      • #12
                        Husband has a family where there are 12 children. 2 of them (no. 2 and no. 11) don't appear to have been baptised at all. I'm still puzzling over that.
                        ~ with love from Little Nell~
                        Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                        • #13
                          I think they did it on purpose just to confuse us!!! :D
                          Sue

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                          • #14
                            I have a James in my tree who has 6 children.

                            He marries in 1818 to Sophia.

                            First child born 1819 Alexander is baptised with mothers name of Sophia.

                            2 & 3 (William 1824 and Edward 1825) have their mother recorded as Charlotte - both baptised on the same day.

                            4, 5 & 6 (Henry 1831, Emma 1832 and Harriet 1835) go back to Sophia again.

                            James has the same occupation and address in all the baptisms and I know Sophia didn't die until 1883 and her and James are together on 1851 and 1871. 1861 is missing.

                            In 1841 all four boys are with together with James so I'm certain he's the daddy of them all (there's not another James Linkson at this time anyway).

                            My guess is there is a mistake on the originals copy made at the church.
                            I'll never know for certain if there was a Charlotte or if the vicar has remembered her name wrong when writing up the books or transposed the names of another mother.

                            Even the original sources are open to error.
                            Last edited by samesizedfeet; 15-06-08, 21:17.
                            Zoe in London

                            Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Little Nell View Post
                              Husband has a family where there are 12 children. 2 of them (no. 2 and no. 11) don't appear to have been baptised at all. I'm still puzzling over that.
                              They probably couldn't afford the fee ! I have some who were baptised as adults although other siblings were ' done ' in the normal way as children.You may find the missing ones at later dates.

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                              • #16
                                BC

                                Don't think so. They baptised two sets of children at the same time, without doing the one that hadn't been baptised, if you see what I mean. Last but one child not baptised, though the ones immediately before and after him were.
                                ~ with love from Little Nell~
                                Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  So, Rebecca could be the daughter of Joseph and Mary, just not baptised, or she could be their daughter and the vicar got the mothers name wrong, or she could belong to a completely different family altogether

                                  I'm more confused than ever! I'm off to order that marriage certificate....
                                  Sue

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