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"The said yearly Rent of Eight Shillings Capon"???

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  • "The said yearly Rent of Eight Shillings Capon"???

    I am transcribing and INDENTURE from 1711 involving my Quintrell family in Cornwall.

    I don't yet understand it, but it is a gem as it mentions children and their ages as well as lots of other details.

    One phrase is "And if itt happen The Said yearly rent of Eight Shillings Capon or Twelve Pence for the Same Harvest Journey.."

    I have tried to look up "Capon" but to no avail. Has anyone a clue?
    Elizabeth
    Research Interests:
    England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
    Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

  • #2
    The only meanning I know of capon is a neutered cockerel!! Which isn't a great deal of help!
    Mavis
    Dust is a noun, never a verb;)

    Comment


    • #3
      A chicken, a castrated cock to be precise.
      Cheers
      Guy
      Guy passed away October 2022

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Mavis by the Moor View Post
        The only meanning I know of capon is a neutered cockerel!! Which isn't a great deal of help!
        Its the only Capon I have heard of but why on earth would they neuter a cockeral?

        Maybe it was plus a Capon..




        ]

        Comment


        • #5
          But what is the significance here? Is the rent paid in Capons??

          When I have finished transcribing it I shall probably have to ask for further assistance in understanding it. It's not like anything I have done before! I have yet to work out how John Quintrell fits into my tree, too.
          Elizabeth
          Research Interests:
          England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
          Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

          Comment


          • #6
            Good luck Elizabeth with fitting him into your tree

            Im really curious now to how the Capon fits in!




            ]

            Comment


            • #7
              Neutering cockerels is supposed to make them more tender, (that's when they took a normal number of months to grow to eating size, not weeks as they do these days!!!)

              Maybe there should be a comma or colon in the phrase, i.e.
              "rent of Eight Shillings; Capon or Twelve Pence for the Same Harvest Journey...."
              Mavis
              Dust is a noun, never a verb;)

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks Mavis




                ]

                Comment


                • #9
                  In common with most of these documents (i.e. Indentures, Wills, etc.) there is the complete absence of any punctuation!

                  I have almost finished transcribing it, but I must admit it isn't making much sense!

                  This was a batch of my mum's stuff that she collected over the years which are in a box file all in brown envelopes! I found my great-grandfather's service record, and also andother Indenture between Samuel Ennys and John Quintrell of the same era. The next one is easier to read.

                  They both mention "Tyn and Tyn workes and all mines.." The second one looks very similar to the first.
                  Elizabeth
                  Research Interests:
                  England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                  Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well you would expect tin mines in Cornwell, now wouldn't you :D

                    I often wonder how these documents held up in court without the punctuation to help make sense of them!!

                    I reckon the rent was eight shillings a year plus at harvest an extra of 12 pence or a capon for some reason, payment in kind was not unusual. Does the next bit suggests why an extra payment?
                    Mavis
                    Dust is a noun, never a verb;)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Legal documents NEVER have punctuation, other than full stops. Nor do they have spaces or gaps.

                      You can't buy capons now as they are illegal, but I always used to have a capon at Xmas as a good compromise between a chicken and a turkey - large, full of flavour and tender.

                      OC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It is common to have extra items in such rents, often hens or capons.
                        I was scanning a book the other day which had twenty or thirty examples.
                        Cheers
                        Guy
                        Guy passed away October 2022

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                          Legal documents NEVER have punctuation, other than full stops. Nor do they have spaces or gaps.
                          It takes great skill to write an unambiguous sentence without punctuation.
                          Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            UJ

                            Exactly and that is why legal language is so precise and yet so flowery at the same time.

                            It is also difficult to write a unambiguous sentence WITH punctuation sometimes:

                            Eats, shoots and leaves.
                            Eats shoots, and leaves.
                            Eats shoots and leaves.
                            Eats, shoots, and leaves.

                            OC

                            (PS: I am more intrigued by the "harvest journey" bit - what's a harvest journey???)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              OC - when I have finished transcribing it would you like a copy?

                              I can't put it on here because of Copyright restrictions by the Corwall Record Office.
                              Elizabeth
                              Research Interests:
                              England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                              Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Jumping in Elizabeth hope you do not mind

                                I have a Quintrell in a twig of my tree.

                                Edward Rodney Quintrell married Susannah Trezona 4th Sept 1802 Camborne, they had (that I know at the moment) Johnson Quintrell ring any bells with your Quintrells????

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Linda, Of course I don't mind.

                                  I'll look at my tree and get back to you later, if I may.


                                  I have just looked at the cover slip for the document:

                                  It goes something like this:

                                  "John Quintrell
                                  C??er part for
                                  The Safron Meadows


                                  dated ye 29th 7 1711 Rent and Capon Rent & Capon
                                  ?g? – Herriott 56?

                                  Fine 52:3:0

                                  Mary Daug of MEthusulah Parson
                                  Mary Daur of Ricd. Quintrell
                                  Mr Nich.s Kempe

                                  Noe Suite of Court
                                  No (63)

                                  Rent 9/6
                                  his? Herriott?

                                  29 Sept 1711

                                  (Confirmed)"
                                  Elizabeth
                                  Research Interests:
                                  England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                                  Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Elizabeth

                                    A heriot was a customary payment on death (and at certain other times) of a live animal - usually the best beast. Later translated into a money payment. That explains your capon!

                                    Does the other word say "copyholder?"

                                    OC

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Linda:

                                      Your Edward Rodney's parents appear to have been Edward and Sarah and he was baptised 28 July 1782 Camborne.

                                      I don't appear to have Quintrells from Camborne in my tree, but if we both go further back there could be a link.

                                      My Quintrells were from the Roseland peninsula.

                                      My mum did this side of the tree 20 years ago.

                                      She has Protestation Oath Returns, Cornwall Hearth Tax and Muster Roll details. However, it is very disorganised and it is going to be a major job to organise it all

                                      |She also has a paper with "2. The move to Cambourne" on it - which would be of great interest to you. If you are interested pm me your e-mail, as as I get through it all I will send you detials.

                                      There seem to have been Quintrells in Camborne from 1660 onwards.

                                      One of my ancestors was Steward for The Carlyon Estate but I can't find the details at the moment. My mum's papers are all muddled up!
                                      Last edited by Elizabeth Herts; 14-06-08, 19:36.
                                      Elizabeth
                                      Research Interests:
                                      England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                                      Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        OC - thanks for that.

                                        The word beginning with "C" looks as though it has 6 letters.
                                        Co??l?er part"
                                        Elizabeth
                                        Research Interests:
                                        England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                                        Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                                        Comment

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