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Theatricals! Help to find in 1901 please.

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  • Theatricals! Help to find in 1901 please.

    I have found this man on the 1881 and 1891 census and I need to find him in 1901. I'm not bothered about finding his origins ....only about what he was doing around 1901 and what happened to his "wife".........Here goes!

    1881 RG11; Piece: 4914; Folio: 97; Page: 35 (Bishop Auckland, Co. Durham)

    Edwin Henry Edelsten boarder m 26 comedian b Warrington Lancs
    Eliza Edelsten boarder m 31 actress b London Middlesex

    1891 RG12; Piece: 1083; Folio 111; Page 52 (Edmonton, Middlesex)

    Edwin Hy Edelsten head m 35 comedian b Ireland, Cork
    Eliza Edelsten wife m 39 actress b Surrey Newington

    As i said, I can't find him/them in 1901 but in 1903 there's this:

    Marriages Mar 1903
    Edelsten Edwin Henry A Fulham 1a 500 <<<<<<<<<<<<
    Edwardy Callie Gerome Fulham 1a 500
    Luton Clara Martha Fulham 1a 500
    WERTHEIMER Emile Fulham 1a 500

    So, where did Eliza go? (was Edwin married to Eliza?)

    The reason I'm doing this is that I think Edwin was the father of two illegitimate children b 1898 and 1900, but I really need to find him and see if he still had Eliza in tow!

  • #2
    On, and there's this too!

    Marriages Mar 1906
    CARRICK Sarah Strand 1b 653
    Edelsten Edwin Henry Strand 1b 653 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
    MACKAY John Strand 1b 653
    Trousdell Eliza Frances E Strand 1b 653

    Comment


    • #3
      This could be him, back to saying he was born in Warrington again, and age a bit out, but don't know whether this is a different wife:

      RG13 Piece 186 Folio 167 Page 36
      207 Southgate Rd., Islington
      E H Edelston Head M 64 Wire Worker Lancashire Warrington
      Elizabeth Do Wife M 60 Bucks Aylesbury
      KiteRunner

      Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
      (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

      Comment


      • #4
        No, sorry, that's not him because that one was an Edward Henry and died 1905 but your Edwin died 1913 (and was younger!)
        KiteRunner

        Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
        (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks for looking Kite.

          It's so annoying! lol Perhaps he was abroad?! lol

          I have found a couple of references to him on the Gale site (1880's/1890's), but nothing anywhere else, other than Ancestry.

          Comment


          • #6
            There are a lot more of these Edelstens / Edelsteins / Edelston(e)s / Eddleston(e)s etc than I thought there would be! If it weren't for the occupation then I would be wondering whether those 1881 and 1891 entries were definitely the same person!
            KiteRunner

            Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
            (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

            Comment


            • #7
              I agree. I suppose the details when they were boarders might have been partly guessed by someone? I feel pretty confident they are one and the same couple though.

              Comment


              • #8
                I was browsing Google book search and found "American and British Theatrical Directory"

                Its one of those JSTOR ones so you can't see the extract but in the search bit it says

                Edelsten Mrs E H see Edelsten Eliza .... (d1897)....

                There's also a 1903 book of verses call "We've Got a Mighty Empire If We Help Each Other Through" by E H Edelsten.

                Any good?

                Jackie
                Jackie

                Comment


                • #9
                  He almost certainly used a stage name. If you knew what it was, you might be able to track him that way.

                  (Sorry, that extract from the Book of the B***ing Obvious wasn't much help was it)

                  OC

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It's worth checking the adverts in The Era which you'll get on Gale

                    Quite often they advertise to say they're available for work but also to say when they have an engagement and with who - which can give you clues as to where they may have been touring
                    Zoe in London

                    Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If the Edelsten name is a stage name he wouldn't be using it when marrying - he'd have to use his real name.

                      Although I have found one chunk of my family so confused with themselves that they change between real name and stage name from census to census.

                      But if you've found him in historical papers as Edwin Edelsten that would suggest he went by that name on stage
                      Zoe in London

                      Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re my previous post

                        Deaths Q/E March 1897 St Saviour Vol 1d Page 85 Eliza Atherton Edelsten Age 55. Could this be her?

                        Jackie
                        Jackie

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Mrs E H Edelsten also acted under the name Miss Lizzie Graham
                          Zoe in London

                          Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            oooooooooh - in April 1896 he was in a play called Jack in the Box......









                            with my my 3 x great grandfather Charles Henry Fenton!!!!!!!!!
                            Zoe in London

                            Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              from The Era
                              6th February 1897

                              Deaths
                              Edelsten - Eliza, the beloved wife of E H Edelsten, who passed into silence on Tuesday Feb 2d. Interment from 10 Newington Crescent S.E. on Tuesday February 9th at 11.30
                              Zoe in London

                              Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Oh that's great!!

                                So his poor wife died (I wonder if the name Atherton is the A in his name too?) and he took up with my contact's relative, who looks to have had two children by him. Then he remarried in either 1903 or 1906, or both, and died in 1913.

                                Sounds fab and the bit about the illegitimate children is provable if I can pursuade my contact to investigate the mum's name on this birth cert:

                                Name: Edwin Henry A Edelsten
                                Year of Registration: 1898
                                Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
                                District: Newton Abbot
                                County: Devon
                                Volume: 5b
                                Page: 79

                                The child has mum's maiden name in 1901 and contact hadn't found a birth cert in that name, so no clues about that child as far as she was concerned. next child was registered as illegitimate (and no father) but when that second child died as a baby the registrar put down "son of a theatrical professional" on the death cert and it was from this info that I picked out the above birth reg for the first child (hoping they both had the same father!)from about a dozen Edwin's born in Newton Abbot district and discovered the child didn't seem to exist as Edelsten up to and including the 1901 census and (Woohoo!!) the likely father was a theatrical professional!

                                Thank you everyone for your help..........fingers crossed my contact doesn't refuse to accept the above. She wasn't really happy that her relative was single and had babies, despite the evidence :(

                                Am off to email her now ......

                                Thanks again.
                                Last edited by Merry Monty Montgomery; 10-06-08, 07:42.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  But if you've found him in historical papers as Edwin Edelsten that would suggest he went by that name on stage
                                  I should have said.....both items I found were about him in "real life" one where another actor had punched him when he took a stage prop and messed up a scene in a play - this went to court as an assault case - and the other where he wrote a letter to the paper about something.

                                  Nice to know he worked with your ancestor, Zoe!! lol

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    there's also a Henry Edward Edelsten who uses the name Lalor Barry and runs a company called the Lalor Barry Combination.

                                    He may be the same man or another connected man as Lizzie Graham works with him. There's a report of a court case in The Era but not enough to identify if Henry Edward is in fact Edwin Henry with his name reported wrongly.
                                    Zoe in London

                                    Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      last tip before I leave you alone

                                      You need to search under Mr Edelsten and Mr E H Edelsten and also Mrs Edelsten and Mrs E H Edelsten, as playbills and cast lists sometimes appear formally and married actresses can sometimes be billed under their husbands names. Same goes for her maiden name if you want to find her - it's worth searching as Miss Graham in the "Arts" category on Gale.
                                      Zoe in London

                                      Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Thanks Zoe, I'll be having another look at the Gale site later on

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