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  • Australian burial mystery

    Could a soldier who was killed in France in WW1 have been buried in Australia 5 years later? I've never heard of anything like this before, and I wonder if anyone else has.

    I have an Ernest Chandler, born Walcha, NSW in 1890, parents Andrew James Chandler and Jessie Gertrude Curtis.

    He was killed in France in 1917, and buried at Trois Arbres Cemetery, Steenwerck:

    CWGC :: Casualty Details

    What I can't understand is that I've now found the following death in Queensland:

    Reg # / Family name / Given name / Fathers given names / Mothers names

    1922/F1504 / Chandler / Ernest / Andrew James Chandler / Jessie Gertrude Curtis

    The names are sufficiently distinctive that this has to be the same person.

    I've never heard of soldiers killed in France being buried in Australia - and if it was just a memorial service, I can't imagine that he'd appear in the death index.

    His parents both died in NSW, but according to the electoral roll they were in Queensland in 1919 and 1925.

    I can't check his service record again because the NAA site is down at the moment.

    Any ideas?
    Last edited by Mary from Italy; 08-06-08, 19:17.

  • #2
    Are you sure he was actually buried in either place, as opposed to being officially "missing" presumed dead, declared dead some time later and then commemorated in both locations - home and arena of war?

    Jay
    Janet in Yorkshire



    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

    Comment


    • #3
      (Cautiously) I suppose it was possible to repatriate a body and rebury it.

      Alternatively, many soldiers were declared missing in action at the time. Perhaps there was some confusion about whether he had died or not.

      I don't know the laws in Australia - in England, a death appears when it is REGISTERED, which is not always necessarily when it occurred.

      OC

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Janet in Yorkshire View Post
        Are you sure he was actually buried in either place, as opposed to being officially "missing" presumed dead, declared dead some time later and then commemorated in both locations - home and arena of war?
        He was actually buried in France according to the CWCG.

        I'm just guessing at a reburial in Australia, because I've never come across a death entry in Australia for a serviceman who died abroad.

        The parents lived in Chinchilla, Queensland, but there don't seem to be any burials online for Chinchilla cemetery.

        Comment


        • #5
          He wasn't posted missing in action, or there'd have been an MIA file on the Australian War Memorial site. In fact, he's shown on that site as having died of wounds:

          Roll of Honour

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          • #6
            I thought that there was a political decision - re public morale - not to allow general repatriation of bodies because people would notice the sudden increase in funerals.

            But that's a death registration, isn't it? - not a burial record. I believe that there are UK death registrations for UK soldiers in WW1 who were killed in France/Flanders and buried there.

            Christine
            Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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            • #7
              I thought that I had heard that some Australian soldiers were taken back to Australia without official permission.
              Click here to order your BMD certificates for England and Wales for only £9.25 General Register Office

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              Jacob Sudders born in Prussia c.1775 married Alice Pidgeon in 1800 in Gorelston. Do you know where Jacob was born?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Christine in Herts View Post
                But that's a death registration, isn't it? - not a burial record.
                That's right.

                I believe that there are UK death registrations for UK soldiers in WW1 who were killed in France/Flanders and buried there.
                Not in the normal GRO records, though.

                As I said, I've never found a death registration in Australia for a soldier killed abroad before. I shall be interested to hear what the Aussie contingent say when they arrive.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Pippa Doll View Post
                  I thought that I had heard that some Australian soldiers were taken back to Australia without official permission.
                  I hadn't heard that - that might be the answer, then.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If a British serviceman died in WW1 his GRO record should be in

                    GRO Army War Deaths Other Ranks 1914-1921 or
                    GRO Army War Deaths Officers 1914-1921

                    But I don't know where Australian war death certs would be listed?

                    My g-uncle's death cert wasn't issued until 1920 even though he died just after the end of the war.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Australian WW1 service records are available online at the Australian Archives site, and they are free to download, it that is any help.
                      Christine
                      Normal day, let me be aware of the treasure you are. Let me learn from you, love you, bless you before you depart. Let me not pass you by in quest of some rare and perfect tomorrow. Let me hold you while I may, for it may not always be so.
                      Mary Jean Iron

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                      • #12
                        Yes, as I said upthread, the site's down at the moment, so I can't check his service record. I must have looked at it when I first found his details on the CWGC site, because I've made a note that he was buried near Armentières.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Mary...............it is possible, not usually done though, but I do have one myself.

                          It is a public holiday here today Queen's Birthday (don't ask, I know it's in April).

                          If you like I will ring the Qld BDM tomorrow and see if I can suss out who he is and where he is buried. They have the place of burial on the death cert.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ooh, that'd be fantastic, Libby, thanks! Will they give you that information over the phone?

                            I checked out his parents - they're buried in Bathurst NSW, and there's also an Athol and Eileen Chandler in the same cemetery, but no sign of Ernest.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I see the NAA site's working again now - I have to go and pick up my son, but I'll have a look at the service record when I get back.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                No problem, Mary. Officialy they won't tell you, but if I pretend it's my rellie and I had no idea he was registered here, they might be nice.

                                You have to be sneaky LOL.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Harrys mum View Post

                                  It is a public holiday here today Queen's Birthday (don't ask, I know it's in April).
                                  I believe she is unique (apart from our ancestors of the flexible birthdate syndrome ;)) in having two birthdays: one to reflect when she was actually born, and an official one at a convenient time of year (in UK) for parades etc.

                                  Christine
                                  Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Christine.......I must admit if we were having a parade it's best done in winter.

                                    But today is showery and grey, although not cold.

                                    I'm afraid I'm a bit like Trish...bring on snow LOL. I think we had a few flutters in 1958, but they melted before they hit the ground.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Harrys mum View Post
                                      No problem, Mary. Officialy they won't tell you, but if I pretend it's my rellie and I had no idea he was registered here, they might be nice.

                                      You have to be sneaky LOL.
                                      Thanks, that's great. Don't worry if they won't tell you, though

                                      I had a look at the service record and I can't see any reference to his remains being repatriated. I've only looked at about the last 20 pages of the 84 so far, though. It says on the last page that a memorial scroll was sent to his father in 1921 and a memorial plaque in 1922 (the year the death was registered in Qld), and a copy of the cemetery register in 1930 (?), but I assume these relate to the original burial in France.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        By the way, the parents lived at Pelican, Chinchilla. Is Pelican the name of a village?

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