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Where are the old index books from the FRC now?

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  • Where are the old index books from the FRC now?

    I've been reading about the GRO indexes again!

    I know we often say entries sometimes don't reach the GRO, but here's something that causes far more problems than that :(

    The films/fiche of the GRO index books have lots of missing pages!! Not all the film/fiche versions of the indexes are the same, but I've been checking apparently missing death entries against the FreeBMD transcriptions and many of the pages which are missing from at least one film version do not appear on FreeBMD.

    If it's one page of handwritten index that's been missed then that might mean 40 names are missing from what is available to us via the GRO, but if it's two or three typed pages then the numbers are increased dramatically.

    I was aware that some pages are missing when viewing Ancestry "Complete" Indexes, but didn't realise many of these pages are missing from all film versions of the GRO indexes and are not just an Ancestry error.

    For Example: For death indexes 1853-1865 there's only about 10 quarters (out of 52) where there are no missing pages from the particular film checked.

    So.........now the public doesn't have access to the actual index books, some entries may never be found if the only way to trace them is via the GRO (ie London entries etc)

    And if you are reading this OC, do you have a Charles Shuttleworth Holden (poss b 1756 of Gawthorpe, Lancashire) on your tree?
    Last edited by Merry Monty Montgomery; 06-06-08, 20:39.

  • #2
    I understand that the old books that we used to hump around are now surplus to requirement and have been mothballed! So all we have now is what is online, but don't forget that a lot of the indexes are still with the major libraries all over the country so still available for free to view.

    All the Census have gone to TNA at Kew and I understand that the Regimental Indexes are also at Kew, at least I hope they are, because Findmypast is not brilliant at finding all these Army BMD, which Regimental Indexes are brilliant for access to search for army ancestors from 1790ish onwards and includes Ireland, and is worth searching for all those people who cannot be found on British BMD.

    Adoption Books I am not sure where that has gone , probably TNA

    Janet

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Janet View Post
      So all we have now is what is online, but don't forget that a lot of the indexes are still with the major libraries all over the country so still available for free to view.
      Yes, but it's these films that are incomplete!

      Pity noone is willing to do anything with this wasted resource (the ledgers)

      Comment


      • #4
        Merry

        Yes, there are dodgy ones and yes there are mistranscriptions but I don't think people make enough use of the Regimental Indexes either. I am sure people would find a few of their missing ancestors in that one, but I am not sure where it is going from the FRC. Clearly the Findmypast Index is much more of a lottery, and nowhere near as easy to search as the ledgers were.

        Janet

        Comment


        • #5
          Merry

          Yes, I can see your point and it is one that has been bugging me for years!

          Most people rely on the online indexes for their searching - I used to rely on the library index, pre computer days. I had little chance of getting to Kew.

          This slowed my research down a LOT, because Lancashire is notorious for "missing" events which did not reach the GRO. Add that to incomplete fim of the index and I was snookered most of the time.

          All those people who think their rellie was never registered, might possibly have found them by hunting through the books.

          I'll say it again - the DOVE project was a disgracefully missed opportunity to put right these errors and omissions, and probably the last chance ever to do so.

          OC

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          • #6
            Okay guys, have you filled in the sutvey, then?

            If you visit the GRO website there's an online survey.

            (It also wants you to tell them you are a brainless moron who would be the prey of identity fraud, but you can ignore those questions!)

            Re the Comedy of Errors, there is also the problem of the handwritten pages which never found their way into the typewritten index books.
            Phoenix - with charred feathers
            Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

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            • #7
              OC did you read ALL my post?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
                Re the Comedy of Errors, there is also the problem of the handwritten pages which never found their way into the typewritten index books.

                Indeedy!

                Comment


                • #9
                  I used to like going FRO Islington to trawl through the ledgers shuffling along the desks as you checked

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by James View Post
                    I used to like going FRO Islington to trawl through the ledgers shuffling along the desks as you checked
                    It's the only RO I've ever been to, and that was back in 1994 :D

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yes, Merry, I did read ALL your post, but by the time I had sounded off about the GRO, I had quite forgotten Charles Shuttleworth Holden, pmsl. Short term memory is not what it was.

                      Um, I don't have him, but I really rather like the sound of him - Shuttleworths and Holdens intermarried a lot pre 1500s and this might be an echo from the past. What do you know of him, please.

                      OC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Oops I just sent you a PM, but will reply here so I can show off about what I've looked up!!

                        There was a ref about his daughter, Emma Maria b abt 1802, in the book about the GRO errors. It was in the section about couples who married twice in different churches, usually on the same day. Emma and her second husband married in an RC chapel and in the C of E too. (there wasn't anything wrong with their entries, it was listed as an example of a "normal" "double marriage). I don't know if they had the RC ceremony because the Groom was Irish, or some other reason!

                        Anyway, he must be one of yours because his mother is the Holden and his father is the Shuttleworth (if the submitted stuff is to be believed!), but he's called Holden!! lol:

                        Charles Shuttleworth Holden Compact Disc #6 Pin #44898 Pedigree
                        Birth: abt 1756
                        of Gawthorpe,,Lancashire,England
                        Death: 1821
                        Oxford,Oxfordshire,England
                        Parents
                        Father: James Shuttleworth Disc #6 Pin #44902
                        Mother: Mary Holden Disc #6 Pin #45090

                        Spouse: Mary Cockburn Forester Disc #6 Pin #44899
                        Marriage: 10 Sep 1776
                        ,Forcett,Yorkshire,England

                        Spouse: Elizabeth Whitmore Disc #6 Pin #44893
                        Marriage: 16 Mar 1780
                        St Geo Han Sq,Westminster,Middlesex,England

                        Spouse: Rosamund Amelia Deane Disc #6 Pin #44901
                        Marriage: 1798

                        Personal Information
                        Title: Reverend

                        __________________________________________________ __________

                        EMMA MARIA HOLDEN
                        Christening: 15 NOV 1801 Aston-On-Trent, Derby
                        Parents:
                        Father: CHARLES HOLDEN
                        Mother: ROSAMOND AMELIA
                        Messages: Form submitted by a member of the LDS Church.


                        EMMA MARIA HOLDEN
                        Marriages:
                        Spouse: WILLIAM BOATES
                        Marriage: 28 DEC 1826 Saint Oswald, Ashbourne, Derby,
                        Messages: Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record.

                        Likely 1841: HO107; Piece 1095; Book: 1; Civil Parish: Broadwater; County: Sussex; Enumeration District: 3; Folio: 52; Page:

                        21; Line: 12;

                        Marriages Mar 1844
                        BOATES Emma Maria Marylebone 1 197
                        DONELAN James Marylebone 1 197

                        Marriages Mar 1844
                        BOATES Emma Maria Marylebone 1 207
                        DONELAN James Marylebone 1 207

                        Two marriages, 12th Feb 1844. One was at The Spanish Place Chapel, just off Manchester Square, Marylebone.

                        This was a Roman Catholic Chapel and was probably the entry listed as page 207. The other marriage was at

                        Trinity Church, Marylebone (C of E). Father of the groom was Matthew Donelan. At the RC ceremony he was

                        recorded as a barrister and at Trinity church, no occ and dec'd. Emma's father was recorded as Charles

                        Shuttleworth Holden, a clerk, at the RC marriage and no occ and dec'd at the C of E ceremony.

                        1851: HO107; Piece: 2222; Folio: 119; Page: 39

                        1861: RG9; Piece: 1388; Folio: 9; Page: 11;

                        Deaths Sep 1869
                        Donellan Emma Maria 67 Derby 7b 271

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hmmm Mary Holden (Charles' mother) and her father Robert are said to be from Aston Hall, Derbyshire, not Lancs :(:(

                          They are landed gentry though!! lol

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                          • #14
                            Phoenix

                            Done it!

                            Janet

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                            • #15
                              Merry

                              That's interesting, thankyou.

                              Also interesting is the fact that a break away group of Holdens called their property Aston Hall (Warwickshire way), much earlier. They were staunch RC - wonder if Charles is the remnant of one of these old families?

                              OC

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                              • #16
                                Don't worry there is only about a thousand pages missing from the microfiche and scanned images of the index. :(
                                Cheers
                                Guy
                                Guy passed away October 2022

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Guy View Post
                                  Don't worry there is only about a thousand pages missing from the microfiche and scanned images of the index. :(
                                  Cheers
                                  Guy
                                  Exactly!!


                                  Guy, maybe you could offer your services for a re-filming project?!!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    FreeBMD volunteers actually did quite a lot of refilming just before the place closed down, though of course those films won't appear in record offices, but will be scanned in for use by FreeBMD for transcribing. I'll see if I can find where they said how many pages they did.
                                    KiteRunner

                                    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by KiteRunner View Post
                                      FreeBMD volunteers actually did quite a lot of refilming just before the place closed down, though of course those films won't appear in record offices, but will be scanned in for use by FreeBMD for transcribing. I'll see if I can find where they said how many pages they did.
                                      That's interesting, Kite.

                                      The first few pages I checked on FreeBMD were there when I was expecting they wouldn't be, but the next few were missing exactly as I was told. So, presumably they managed to refilm some ledgers, but not others?

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        They did 23,581 rescans, though of course I don't know how many of those were missing pages and how many were to replace illegible scans.
                                        KiteRunner

                                        Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                        (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                                        Comment

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