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quiffdo
04-06-08, 22:12
I have exact births for Elliot and James Broadfoot from Whithorn in Scotland.
Ive checked Ancestry for the pair of them on the 1841 scottish census and have not found either of them.
They were both Seaman and may have been away at sea and as they both died at sea in the 1840's thats the only census they would have been on.
My question is, if they were away at sea then is that my only shimmer of a chance gone of finding any mention of them anywhere?
I would love to know if either of them married as they were both 27 and 29 when they died.

Any ideas?

Danny

Pippa Doll
04-06-08, 22:17
Have you checked the English and Welsh census returns?

Pippa Doll
04-06-08, 22:19
Maybe in 1841 in Liverpool?

HO107; Piece 560; Book: 10; Civil Parish: Liverpool; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 10; Folio: 26; Page: 44; Line: 13; GSU roll: 306942.

quiffdo
04-06-08, 22:27
Hey Pippa

Ive not checked the England and Wales census.
Ill take a look at the Liverpool one now, another one of there brothers did go and live in Liverpool so its a possible.

Danny

Mary from Italy
04-06-08, 22:34
Have you tried Scotlandspeople?

quiffdo
04-06-08, 22:37
Hey Mary

Yeah i tried but nothing jumped out at me.

Pippa

Afraid the Broadfoots in Liverpool dont look like mine

Pippa Doll
04-06-08, 22:40
Thats a shame but it would have been nice and convenient!

quiffdo
04-06-08, 22:46
It would have been nice.

Just for info sake, James was born 1814, Elliot was born 1816 and there were two other brothers were William who was born in c1808 and Peter born 1821.
They were all born in Whithorn, Wigtownshire scotland.
I know what happened to William and i know when James and Elliot died but i know nothing of Peter at all or if James and Elliot married.

Danny

Merry Monty Montgomery
04-06-08, 22:48
If they were on a ship or boat that wasn't moored on census night then your glimmer has gone out for 1841!

On some later censues (1871 onwards??) Royal Navy ships at sea were included, but not if they were docked in a foreign port. All other shipping "at sea" was excluded from all censuses.

quiffdo
04-06-08, 22:55
Just my luck, all my ancestors are probably laughing at me right now:(

Danny

KiteRunner
04-06-08, 23:18
Merry, I thought that on later censuses if the ship was at sea on census night then the master filled in the form and gave it in when they came back? Or sometimes, anyway. My great-grandfather is listed on the 1891 Scottish census but the location of the boat is Lat 53 deg 25 min N Long 0 deg 49 min E, which I seem to remember when I looked it up was in English waters.

Merry Monty Montgomery
05-06-08, 16:17
Merry, I thought that on later censuses if the ship was at sea on census night then the master filled in the form and gave it in when they came back? Or sometimes, anyway. My great-grandfather is listed on the 1891 Scottish census but the location of the boat is Lat 53 deg 25 min N Long 0 deg 49 min E, which I seem to remember when I looked it up was in English waters.

Well, I've been spouting the same thing for about 15 years, without ever checking my facts!

First thing I have wrong is that in 1901 RN ships in ports abroad were included:

Jeff Knaggs - Genealogy - 1901 Royal Navy Ships (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jeffery.knaggs/RNShips.html)

Of course the 1901 wasn't released when I was first doing this, but that's no excuse :)

Might the ships at sea (not RN) records possibly be for Scottish censuses only? (straw clutching!)

Merry Monty Montgomery
05-06-08, 16:20
I'm sure this is the same page I used to refer to (or one that looked like it), but I thought it used to say RN infront of the refs to ships on the high seas etc.

Seamen on British Censuses (http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/UKCensuses.html)

Or maybe I've just remembered it wrong?!!

Merry Monty Montgomery
05-06-08, 16:25
In that link I posted RGSS = Registry General for Shipping & Seamen

Phoenix
05-06-08, 16:52
Scotland is another country, but merchant seamen sailing round England had to have a "ticket". Records for the period are at TNA. These would give date & place of birth, plus voyages, so you could see where they were and if they were away on census night. And if they died, this is usually noted. Unfortunately, the system was so complex that it foundered in the late 1840s.

Another possibility if they died and left dependents is Trinity House Petitions - index on Origins. One of my Skillings was drowned off Holland in 1852 - no death certificate - and I got dates of mariage, baptism of children, ships he had served on, who had recommended the widow.... fantastic details.

quiffdo
05-06-08, 21:23
If one of them was a coastguard in scotland would his records be at Kew or would they be somewhere else as its Scotland?

Danny

Phoenix
06-06-08, 09:07
I would have thought TNA. I'm sure that Glen's scottish coastguard's records were at Kew. Have a look at their website - there should be a research guide on the subject.