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Solid Tartan Brick Wall

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  • Solid Tartan Brick Wall

    Great-Great-Great grandad was more or less consistent with his age on the census giving a birth date circa 1825/6 , but gives four different birth places Fraserburgh, Fyvie, St Nicholas, and Aberdeen, all in same county but not particularly close to each other. On 1851 he is with his employer so no clue to his parents there , and he was married 1853 two years before certs..so no luck there either! His son who registered his death in 1892 clearly did not know his parentage as he left the box blank! urrgh. Totally stuck.

    May help if I can positively identify him on 1841 census, but not been able to as of yet. This is him on the later census:

    1851 Census: Lint Mill, Drumblade Aberdeenshire
    James Gordon, journeyman, Unm, 25, Journeyman Cooper, Aberdeen

    1861 Census: 7 Back Street, Huntly, Aberdeenshire
    James Gordon, son in law, Mar, 36, Cooper (Journeyman), Fyvie Aberdeenshire

    1871 Census: 7 Back Street, Huntly, Aberdeenshire
    James Gordon, head, mar, 45, Cooper (Master) Fraserburgh, Aberdeenshire

    1881 Census: 7 Back Street, Huntly, Aberdeenshire
    James Gordon, head, mar, 54, Master Cooper, St Nicholas Aberdeen

    1891 Census: 7 Back Street, Huntly, Aberdeenshire
    James Gordon, head, Widow, 60, General Cooper, Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire

    Any help much appreciated..would love to at last be able to move back further on this line. Thanks

  • #2
    Hi Richard

    Can't help I'm afraid - but just to say I'm in the same boat!! So I sympathise!Those Victorian Scots are really difficult to trace aren't they! I'm hunting Campbells in Glasgow - worse than a needle in a haystack!!
    Dorothy G

    searching Gillett (Preston/Sheffield). Campbell and Hepburn in Glasgow

    There's no such thing as a Free Lunch

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Dorothy, yes it's difficult enough with the surnames being so common, certainly doesn't help when he changes his birth place every census too! I wonder whether that was deliberate?.....Needle & haystack indeed!

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Richard,
        My sympathies - I too have 4 x great grandparents with a blank box.
        Have you looked at the OPR for his marriage? Many have little detail but occasionally a witness will give a clue or perhaps mention his home parish which may narrow things down.
        Do you have the names of his children - naming patterns may give a clue also to his parentage or at least allow you to eliminate. The eldest son could be an indication of his father's name.


        Sorry I am not a lot of help.
        herky
        herky
        Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Herky

          Yes did go down that route, got the £10 printout sent to me...a few months before they went and put them on Scotlands people anyway (doh! no luck with this side eh)

          Following info:

          Proclamation of Banns and marriages: May 14th 1853, James Gordon, residing in the parish of Drumblade, and Elspeth Troup, residing in this parish (Huntly), gave in their names in order to proclomation of banns, they were three times proclaimed, and afterwards married.

          So unfortunately no more info to be found there.

          His children were as follows:
          James Gordon b.1855
          William Gordon b.1857
          Elspet Gordon b.1860
          Jane Ross Gordon b.1862
          Mary Gordon b.1864
          Alexander Milne Gordon b.1868

          William is the name of his wife Elspets father, and Jane Ross and Alexander Milne are name of her sister in law and brother in alws respectively, so they are accounted for, all from the wifes side unfortunately, not his.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Richard - you certainly have me stumped - I have had a look at the 1841 census for Drumblade - there are other Gordons but nothing jumps out as a clue.
            There is an Elizabeth b 1781, husband William, same age. Problem is we don't really know where your James was born.
            Unfortunately the middle name seems to come from the wife's side - Milne - so no clue there.
            Of course William could be the name of both parents - quite a common name.
            What you need is a cert of a sibling with the parents on it - do you have an uncle mentioned on any of your deaths or census?
            Who was the informant of the wife (if she died after her husband)?

            Sorry just thinking aloud!!! No help really.

            Ahh just had a thought - I could do a monumental inscription look - up - will get back to you.

            herky
            herky
            Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

            Comment


            • #7
              Probably not much help, but have you considered apprenticeship records? If he was an orphan or perhaps illegitimate/abandoned, then the poor law authorities may have paid for his apprenticeship.

              I have to say I don't have a clue how to access these records, if indeed they even exist in Scotland. Sorry.

              I had a quick look for him in 1841, but of course Ancestry don't show images for Scottish census, so I abadoned that as a lost cause.

              Incidentally, Alexander Milne is a name which recurs over and over again in my Aberdeen branch, but I don't recognise a connection with a Jane Ross.

              OC

              Comment


              • #8
                Richard
                I've been stuck in 1830 with my Scottish branch since the day I began.

                Have you tried the National Archives of Scotland ?

                I have the place and date of my Gt Gt Grandparents marriage from birth certs of some of their children (20 Aug 1850 Wishaw House, Lanarkshire) but the actual marriage does not appear anywhere on Scotlands People .... and they are never found with any parents/siblings.

                Sadly, the NAS couldn't find anything for me but it's definitely worth trying

                ~ FOR PHOTO RESTORATIONS PLEASE SCAN AT A RESOLUTION OF 300-600 WITH THE SCALE AT 100% MINIMUM ~ http://restoreandcolour.brainwaving.co.uk

                Comment


                • #9
                  Herky, thanks again for the help. Unfortunately Elspeth the wife died two years before James, he was the informant. Never as of yet had as much as a mention of any other members of his family in any of the records, lots of his wifes family, but not a sausage on his! I suppose this could of course be explained by fact he moved into her home parish, rather than vice versa, as was perhaps more usual. Thanks for the offer of the M.I look up, certainly interested in anything that may help.

                  O.C, this is along the lines I was thinking, after all he surely must have been apprenticed as he became a master, and a fair bet I have the name of the man he was apprenticed to, as he is at his employers adress in 1851. However likewise I havn't got a clue how to begin going about sourcing them in the Scottish records,(if indeed they do exist..heres hoping!) more familiar with the English system.

                  Oh and likewise with the 1841 census..would be much more helpful if we could view the images free..trying to view them all on Scotlands people would cost me a fortune, and don't really know exactly for what or where I should be looking..thanks g-g-g- grandad!
                  Last edited by Richard; 31-05-08, 16:50.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks for that Rachel, I will note it down as the next step to try, and at least reassuring to know I'm not the only one in the same position!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Richard View Post
                      Thanks for that Rachel, I will note it down as the next step to try, and at least reassuring to know I'm not the only one in the same position!
                      It is infuriating isn't it
                      Mine were easy to trace from 1851 onwards and finding a 3rd cousin in NZ who was also totally stuck was comforting ... well I think that's the word !

                      The main reason I keep renewing my GR subscription is in the hope that one day I might find another contact.
                      It's good to have a bit of a whinge about it every so often .... thanks for the thread ;)


                      ~ FOR PHOTO RESTORATIONS PLEASE SCAN AT A RESOLUTION OF 300-600 WITH THE SCALE AT 100% MINIMUM ~ http://restoreandcolour.brainwaving.co.uk

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Richard,
                        I can't see anything that matches on the Gordons on MI's.
                        However there are Troups so if you would like any inscriptions then if you give me the death details I am happy to look up.

                        From my own personal viewpoint I sometimes think some of our ancestors went out of their way not to be found, really frustrating. I have a great granny who I visited every year as a child, I can see her face and hear her voice - but can I find her birth certificate???!!! never mind - one day!!

                        herky
                        herky
                        Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Herky, I have a photo of Elspeths father William Troups gravestone, with a transcription, but not yet anything for his wife, also Elspeth died in the 1860's Huntly. If she appears in the M.I's would be very interested, also their son William Troup b.1826, not sure when he died, probably Huntly too though. Thanks

                          I certainly have wondered whether there's not perhaps some dark secret lurking behind James, and this is why he gave different birth places, and which might also explain his son not knowing anything of his parents, and the total lack of any relative of his ever appearing in the records..

                          That said just had a look on Freecen. Just realised you can search by occupation there. He'd be 14-16, and there is a 17 year old James Gordon, a coopers apprentice in Aberdeen:

                          Address: George Street, Aberdeen -Aberdeenshire
                          GORDON Isabella F 50 Aberdeenshire
                          GORDON Margret F 20 Aberdeenshire
                          GORDON James M 17 Cooper Apprentice Aberdeenshire
                          ROSS Isabella F 1 Aberdeenshire
                          EWEN John M 1 Aberdeenshire
                          MATHEWS Elizabeth F 35 Aberdeenshire

                          I wonder if that could be him?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Rachel Scand View Post


                            It is infuriating isn't it
                            Mine were easy to trace from 1851 onwards and finding a 3rd cousin in NZ who was also totally stuck was comforting ... well I think that's the word !

                            The main reason I keep renewing my GR subscription is in the hope that one day I might find another contact.



                            I was going to leave GR last year, almost given up on waiting for a similar scenario to happen, but thank god I didn't, as one of my dads cousins joined, who I've never met, and she had inherited all my great grandmothers photos, she sent some lovely photos of my grandparents when they were young and photos of my great grandfather in the army, as well as newspaper reports with photos of my father as a child. No such luck yet on this (my mothers side)..but I'm going to hang on in there....crossed fingered!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Richard

                              I left GR ages ago but still get contacts - they can contact me but I cannot initiate a contact.

                              If - and it is a big IF - I ever spot my one real dead ender appearing in a name search, which I do quite frequently (searching, not spotting) I will abandon my principles and rejoin GR!

                              Edit - Your find looks very interesting especially as there is a child named Ross in the household!

                              OC
                              Last edited by Olde Crone Holden; 31-05-08, 19:21.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Richard.....................have you tried Scotland's Family Tree Forum?

                                I've found they are most helpful with Scottish trees.

                                Unfortunately you have one of the very common Scottish names (like me). Although Huntly was the homeplace of the Gordons, when they first started there, all their workers were also named Gordon.
                                Took me many years of Gordon research to find that out!!!!!!!

                                I have every one of those names you have in my tree and some with the same year of birth, but they are not the same family.

                                I also have the Ross family and the Milne family.

                                If you find any Kellas family, let me know......might be able to help there.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  OC, thanks for that little bit of advice about GR, I didn't know that, I'm due to renew again in 6 weeks time, so I'll bare that bit of very useful info in mind!

                                  I did notice the Ross, though not sure it is significant. I did at one time correspond with a second cousin in Galashiels about this family, a great grandson of Elspeth b.1860, and he had some info that James may be the son of a John Gordon and Mary Ewen, though when I tried to ascertain why it wasn't absolutely clear, and when I carried on pushing for info I think I must have been a bit too eager, as I unfortunately never heard from him again! I was new and keen to genealogy then! Still intersting there is a Ewen in this household.

                                  Libby, yes I learnt that bit of info sometime agao about the workers all taking the clan name long back, so have had to give up on my lofty notions of that lovely castle there in Huntly maybe one day being left to me in someone will! Funnily enough though James's wife, my g-g-g gran Elspeth was working in Huntly Lodge in service to the dowager lady Gordon on the 1851 census as a 21 year old, as a laundry girl, that's probably the nearest my Gordons got to residing inside those fine walls!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Oh and thanks for the tip about the Scotlands Family tree forum Harrys Mum, not actually tried there yet, may give it a go.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Hmm..have found the family from 1841 on 1851 at same adress: 37 George Street, Aberdeen

                                      Isabella Gordon, 60, head, housekeeper, Aberdeen
                                      Catherine Gordon, daughter, 34, Flax Yarn Reeler, England
                                      George Gordon, son, 25, Fly Dresser & Line Maker, Aberdeen
                                      James Gordon, son, 22, Flax Dresser, Aberdeen
                                      Martha Gordon, daughter, 19, Flax yarn reeler, Aberdeen

                                      Hasn't made anything much clearer..really quite confused. It's a pity the 1841 doesn't have relationships on it...her children here appear totally different from the Gordons listed with her on the 1841 census..very strange..scratches head bemused

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