Beatrice and Maud - an identity confusion

[Muggins in Sussex]

I am still trying to discover the identity of "X" (still living) - and I cannot find a birth certificate. I always undersood his mother to be Beatrice - and have photos of Beatrice with X's sister - and letters to X signed "Your loving mother, Beatrice".

The problem is that I have found a family group photo of X's marriage - and to X's right there is a lady -X is absolutely adamant that that lady is his mother.

The problem is that I have traced "relatives", (two of whom seem to be very experienced family historians) and all are equally adamant that the lady in the wedding photo is Maud, one of Beatrice's many sisters. Maud had quite distinctive looks, and I think they are right.

Does any of this make any sense to anyone? - It gives me brain-ache!

[Uncle John]

Just thinking aloud.

1. At whose instigation are you looking for X's BC? If you were asked by X, is he now concerned that you may dig up something upsetting? If X didn't ask you, I'd drop the matter now.

2. Presumably there's some uncertainty about his date and place of birth and perhaps his registered birth name. What is more important to him, getting a BC or finding that all is not what it seems?

Perhaps that's enough for now without delving further.

[Muggins in Sussex]

Hi John - it's at my instigation - will PM you

[Harrys mum]

I was just trying to work out how to say what Uncle John just said....................

Although, I'm probably a bit (lot) nosier than Uncle John, and would keep doing some research on it.

Could Beatrice and Maud have been twins, and one died?

Walk carefully is about all the advice I can give.

[Muggins in Sussex]

Thanks Libby - However I am sure that they were not twins - they lived independant lives - one in Sheffield, one in Altrincham - the confusion is that Maud seems to suddenly appear at the wedding in the place where you might expect the mother of the groom, and yet Beatrice was supposedly the mother.

Thank you

[Pippa Doll]

Have you got a copy of X's birth cert?

[Uncle John]

Joan - I've replied to your pm.

[Rachel Scand]

Hi Joan .... questions from me

Do Beatrice and Maud look alike ?

Could X have been brought up with Beatrice acting as his mother when in fact it was Maud who gave birth to him ?

In other words was Maud younger and unmarried when X was born ?

[Muggins in Sussex]

Hi Joan .... questions from me

Do Beatrice and Maud look alike ?

Could X have been brought up with Beatrice acting as his mother when in fact it was Maud who gave birth to him ?

In other words was Maud younger and unmarried when X was born ?

Hi Rachel,

Beatrice and Maud look very different - Beatrice is the lady in the "Mother and Child re-united" photo that you so beatifully restored - Maud was very slight, quite unusually short and wore glasses - she was older than Beatrice and had her own family

Thank you

[Olde Crone Holden]

Well, which one of them in the photo brought him up?

I remember something of X's story I think. Is it possible that he only THINKS Maud was his mother, in as much as the photo of her looks more like Beatrice than B did herself at that time?

I hope that makes a bit of sense! I have noticed that people often look like other people, later on in life, when they looked only like themselves when they were younger.

OC

[Rachel Scand]

I vaguely remember seeing another photo of yours on here .... a wedding.
I think there was a very short woman (standing at the front and slightly to the left) ?

Would that have been Maud ?

If it was Maud then there was no resemblance to Beatrice, so unlikely to be 'mistaken identity' as regards looks

not sure if I'm making any sense but I do know what I mean !

[Muggins in Sussex]

Hi OC - I'm pretty sure Beatrice brought him up - Maud just seems to suddenly pop up in his wedding photo, posing as his mother!!

You may well remember the story - it was the "Certificate thrown in the fire" problem.

It just seems to have taken a new twist.

Thank you

[Muggins in Sussex]

I vaguely remember seeing another photo of yours on here .... a wedding.
I think there was a very short woman (standing at the front and slightly to the left) ?

Would that have been Maud ?

That is it Rachel!!

I don't remember posting it it and think I shouldn't have done as it includes a living person - but yes- that would be Maud!
Thanks

[Rachel Scand]

erm .... I might regret asking this, but where does Winnie fit in ?

[Muggins in Sussex]

Gosh, you have a wonderful memory, Rachel !

Winnie was Beatrice's daughter - the child in the photos - and possibly X's sister - I met Winnie when I was I child.
Beatrice was actually Beatrice Winifred - sometimes called Winnifred/Winnie

Cheers
j

[Olde Crone Holden]

Yes, I remember now.

Do you think X has reason to lie to you, to put you off the truth?

If, however, Maud IS his mother....perhaps look for X's birth registration under her married name? I take it she was already married when X was born?

I know of a similar scenario - married woman had an affair, hubby came back from war and rejected this child, who was then adopted by his birth mother's sister.

This adoptee has TWO birth certs and one adoption cert - first registration was as a child of the marriage. Hubby went to the Registrar and complained and a re-registration took place, amending the first under the "false information" rule.The second cert bears the spiteful words "Father unknown" - which I have never seen before or since on any birth certificate.


He was then legally adopted. These certs spread over a time period of two years altogether.

OC

[Muggins in Sussex]

Thanks OC - I think Maud would have been too old to be the mother (49) - I have looked for births under her married name, and under the other sisters' married names and got nowhere.

I have a list of all the people registered with that forename in the relevant quarter, and got nowhere.

Maybe the forename is wrong, too!

Why X lies to me I don't know - but I am sure he does - I can only think it is out of embarrassment.

Thanks again

[~Queen.B~]

I hope I'm not being rude when i say this all sounds very interesting!

I hope you get to the bottom of it. ♥

[Olde Crone Holden]

I''m struggling with this...why would X suddenly say that Maud was his mother? That is far more "embarrassing" than allowing you to think that Beatrice was his mother!

Straw clutching...as Maud was 49 and probably too old to have a child, I agree,(although not impossible) did she have any teenage daughters? In fact, did anyone have any teenage daughters when X was born?

OC

[Muggins in Sussex]

I have absolutely no idea, OC - and I don't think many of Beatrice's family had much contact with her after the marriage, as they disliked her husband. I think X was quite attached to his "mother" - but loathed his "father" - the only thing he ever said about his
father's side of the family was that they "were a scurrilous lot" and he was not going to talk about them!

Willl look again at teenage daughters - there were loads!

Thanks again