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Ward: Confusion!

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  • Ward: Confusion!

    Hi guys, I am in a state of cofusion over my Ward's.

    I have the marriage certificate of a Charles Wiliam Humphry Ward, he married my Great Grandmother Emily Barrett ( Barret) in 1909 in Paddington. He was a widow aged 50yrs and she was a spinster aged 23yrs.
    Her father was Edward Barrett, his father was a John Ward, occupation: Shepherd.
    My confusion comes when I ordered Charles Wiliam Humphry Ward's Birth Certificate. After checking on Ancestry and having it checked by others, we came to the conclusion that this was Charles' birth registration.

    Charles William H Ward 1869 Jul-Aug-Sep Newington Surrey
    Charles William H Ward
    Year of Registration: 1869
    Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
    District: Newington
    County: Surrey
    Volume: 1d
    Page: 204

    So I ordered the cert:

    The Certificate says:
    Charles William Henry Ward:
    11 June 1869:
    Father: Frederick James Ward : occupation: Printer.
    Mother Mary Ann Ward formerly Burgess.
    Address: 9 Elizabeth Street, Walworth, Newington. sub district: St Peter Walworth.

    I do know he died in a hospital in London between 1920 and 1928, I was told it was a mental hospital as he suffered severe epilepsy.
    I know it's completely the right marriage certificate which is why I am so confused over the birth cert and the names.

    Thank you for any help you may be able to give me.
    Last edited by Bluedew; 26-05-08, 09:23.

  • #2
    Isn't that one ten years too recent?

    Have you been able to find Mr Ward on any census? What was his occupation?

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Merry, I haven't found Charles on any previous census married to anyone else.
      I know it's 10 years too recent, I did wonder if he had lied somewhere along the line about his age.
      Sorry, I forgot to add Charles' occupation, on his marriage certificate it says he was a Wagon Repairer for GW Railway.
      He lived at 145 Ilbert or Albert Street, it does look like Ilbert. Paddington.

      Comment


      • #4
        Most likely he didn't have all those names at birth.

        The best bit is that his father was a shepherd and not an ag lab so at least you have something to work on whith that. You could look up all the John Ward's who are shepherds on FindMyPast 1861 census and then trace those on Ancestry (if you don't have a findmypast sub) looking to see what children they have, and you could do the same in 1881 on Ancestry in case he was still at home, plus to see how many John Wards changed occ etc.

        Have you looked to see if there are any other marriages in his full name so you can try and trace those people on the census?

        Comment


        • #5
          How old was his bride in 1909? I'd say it's quite unusual for someone to increase their age unless they were very young, or unless the other party was older than them.

          Comment


          • #6
            Have you managed to exclude this one?

            Charles Ward 43 born Drayton Bucks living Paddington London occ Railway Labourer

            Comment


            • #7
              Merry I dont have subs to find Findmypast.
              I have looked over every year from 1869 until 1909 on marriages, it took me days to check every single marriage because I was so desperate to find him married to someone else, I found none under Charles W H Ward except to my G Gran in 1909.
              I have no idea if he had any other children with anyone other than my Great Gran.

              I'll have another scout around today, I really need to find his birth to know I am heading in the right direction.

              Thanks for your help Merry.

              I must have missed that one Merry It looks promising.

              Comment


              • #8
                I don't have a sub to findmypast either, but the indexes are very useful because you can search with occ.

                The above Charles Ward was a railway carriage lifter in 1891!

                Comment


                • #9
                  And a carriage builder in 1881.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This might be the death of his first wife.

                    (she's Sarah J in 1891 and Jane in 1901)

                    Deaths Dec 1901
                    Ward Sarah Jane 38 Hampstead 1a 453


                    she's 37 on the 1901 census.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      My |GGran in 1909 was 23 yrs, she was born in December 1885 in Hammersmith, mother Ruth Sarah Eden born Hammersmith 1834, Father Edward Barret, born Chelsea, Middlesex. 1843.

                      I have just checked out the Charles you found, I have always checked under his full name thinking I'd find him easily.
                      You're much better at this genealogy than me lol.

                      Thank you.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Merry you're a Diamond I had almost lost the plot with this one lol.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Aaaggh! I can't find him before that quickly and I have to go now....sorry!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'm not saying he's the one.....just pos!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Merry it looks like it is him because of the address at the time of his marriage to my G Gran,
                              Thank you so much for your time and effort in helping me, it's very very much appreciated.
                              Thanks.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Fancy that!! I was in such a hurry earlier, that I never thought about who is was askeing about this chap Ward. Secondly, though the name sounded very vaguely familiar, I didn't realise I already knew who he was!! pmsl!

                                Apologies!! lololol

                                Seems he was beamed in, in 1881! I can't find him before that and also I couldn't find an obvious first marriage for him. If you really think it's him that the first marriage cert would be the way to go (for a second lot of father's details) and to get that you might need a birth cert for one of those children.......

                                This looks hopeful (he was Charles L Ward born Chelsea on the 1891 census)

                                Births Sep 1887
                                WARD Charles Leslie Chelsea 1a 398

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  It's taken me this long to notice he said Drayton Bucks in 1901, but Drayton Berks in 1881 and 1891.

                                  I'm wondering if this is him?

                                  Births Sep 1856
                                  Ward Charles William Abingdon 2c 257

                                  Abingdon covers Drayton in BERKSHIRE!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    It's always possible that either Ward wasn't his birth name, or it was, but he had a different name in 1871 and 1861, possibly because his mother was at that time married to someone with another surname. It could be that John ward died before 1861 and his widow remarried or that John Ward didn't exist and the name was used to save embarrassment at Charles' wedding. There are 101 other possibilities too......

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      EUREKA!!!

                                      Found him!!

                                      I think the Ward birth I found (posted earlier) is looking EXTREMELY likely now.

                                      First event after that is this marriage, which I think is Charles' mother (probably unmarried mum, though she could have been a very young widow!):

                                      Marriages Jun 1859
                                      Barrett William Wantage 2c 488
                                      May Harriet Wantage 2c 488
                                      Prior John Wantage 2c 488 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
                                      Ward Elizabeth Wantage 2c 488 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

                                      Then the 1861 census which deserves to be transcribed!

                                      RG9; Piece: 736; Folio: 166; Page: 19

                                      John Pryor head m 27 SHEPHERD b Berks Grove
                                      Elizabeth Pryor wife m 26 dressmaker b Hammersmith
                                      Charles W Pryor son 4 b Berks Drayton <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<this is Charles W H Ward!
                                      Martha A Pryor dau 4mths Berks East Hanney

                                      Living at East Hanney.



                                      In 1871 I haven't been able to find John, Elizabeth or Martha yet, but Charles may be this one:

                                      RG10; Piece: 1402; Folio: 109; Page: 11

                                      Charles Prior servant 14 born Drayton (says Oxon) living at Hitcham Bucks

                                      In 1881 he reverts to his birth name (quite common to do that)

                                      RG11; Piece: 202; Folio: 77; Page: 33

                                      In 1891 he is with wife, Sarah J.

                                      RG12; Piece: 55; Folio 142; Page 2;

                                      and in 1901 they are still together:

                                      RG13; Piece: 17; Folio: 41; Page: 9

                                      So when he married he gave his birth name and then they said "and your father's name?", so he said John, "and his occupation?" and he said shepherd!! John Prior may or may not be Charles' biological father and Charles may or may not have meant to confuse the vicar. He may have meant "my step-father is John Prior and he is (was?) a shepherd", but the expectation that the father's surname would be Ward was in the vicar's mind already! lol
                                      Last edited by Merry Monty Montgomery; 26-05-08, 14:51.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Here are John and Elizabeth Prior in 1871 (Charles isn't there, so I think he must be that servant I mentioned in the last post. He is now an Ag lab!!

                                        RG10; Piece: 1264; Folio: 73; Page: 1

                                        Comment

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