Faithful servant in the War Department

[Just Gillian]

Found an 1861 obit on the Gale site

"On the 6th inst, after a short illness, in his 61st year,.....for upwards of twenty-three years a faithful servant in the War Department, in this town; deeply regretted"

Firstly, do you interpret "in this town" to mean place of death, or place of service in the War Department?

Secondly, would you think the 23 years could apply to any time in his career, or would it mean his occupation immediately prior to his death?

He is a comb maker in '51 and '61 (haven't found him in '41).

[Vicky the Viking]

are you sure the obit is for the same person on the census?

I would have thought "23 years a faithful servant..." - whichever way you read it - would have to span at least 2 census entries.

or perhaps he was a spy & didn't want to tell the enumerator his real occupation?

[Just Gillian]

I think it has to be the same man Vikki. The right age, the right street, John G on the census, John Giles in the obit.

The sons became jewellers and accountants so I'm thinking he was possibly an owner of a comb making factory, rather than an employee.

I'm not even sure what serving the War Department would cover eg whether it would include manufacturing metal goods for the army (it was the Birmingham area) but am hoping it might give me some clues as to where he might be in 1841. If the 23 years could refer to any time in his career, then there would have been time before 1851 for that.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

I would interpret "in this town" to refer to the town the newspaper related to, so if it was the Liverpool Mercury, then it would refer to Liverpool even if you could buy the paper elsewhere.

[Just Gillian]

Thanks Merry.

[Vicky the Viking]

OK then, the comb making bit... if he was making combs for the army or whatever, sounds like the sort of thing he'd have had to learn as a boy, especially if by the time he died he was reasonably well off (as owner or manager or whatever, rather than just a factory worker). So the "23 years" bit probably referred to the latter part of his life. Before that, he was possibly learning his trade somewhere else in the area, perhaps as a apprentice, or doing similar work.

Any clues from his place of birth? North Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Walsall etc were all well known for metal-working.

Or he could have been in the army in which case he could be anywhere...
when/where did he marry, and where were his children born? (Hopefully there are still some with him in 1851)

[Just Gillian]

Vicky - thanks for your help.

The only definite I have for the family is the 1866 marriage cert of John Rogers, son of a John Rogers.The groom's deceased father's occupation (Viewer) is "wrong" for John Giles Rogers but everything else suggests that he is the right father.

I have to go out now but will post details of the family in 1851 and 1861 when I get back later this afternoon.

[Just Gillian]

1851 HO107/2061 Folio 448 P 23

All born Birmingham
John Rogers c1804 Comb Maker
Mary A Rogers c1805 wife Comb Maker
Jane Rogers c1835 daughter Comb Maker
John Rogers c1836 son Solicitor’s Clerk
George Rogers c1843 son Scholar

1861 RG9/ 2184 Folio 35 P 27

All born Birmingham
John Rogers c1801 Comb Maker
Mary Ann Rogers c1801
John Rogers c1839 Brass Founder’s Clerk
George P Rogers c1843 Jeweller

John Giles Rogers was born June 1800 according to IGI, Jane in June 1834 and John Sept 1836. George’s birth was registered in Aston in Sept 1842.
John Giles and Mary Ann were married in St Philips, Birmingham in 1833 and Jane and John were christened there.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Here they are in 1841 (Rodgers, comb maker)

HO107; Piece 1149; Book: 10; Civil Parish: Aston; County: Warwickshire; Enumeration District: 21; Folio: 25; Page: 4; Line: 16

[Just Gillian]

Merry!! I don't believe it! I spent the whole of yesterday afternoon searching, eventually going through all the Johns born Birmingham 1795 to 1810. how did I miss him and you found him 7 minutes after I posted!

Thank you!

Off to have a look at that.

[Just Gillian]

Yes - that's definitely the family!

Unfortunately he doesn't have spy or anything else as an occupation to give a clue to his War Dept. service.

Think perhaps the best bet would be to look for a will and see if that reveals any other business interests.

Thanks for the help Vikki and Merry.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

OH says maybe he was really a bomb maker!!

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

General & Commercial Directory of Birmingham, 1858

Rogers, John, comb mfr 91 Snowhill

That's from the Historical Directories site.

Historical Directories

There are several books with entries as comb maker, but that entry elevates him a notch! There's also entries for John Rogers junr, comb and brush manufacturer)

[Just Gillian]

Off to check the wiki to see when bombs were invented :D

[Just Gillian]

Thanks for that link Merry.

This is one I started for a friend last year and have now got her sufficiently enthused to have opened her first Ancestry account today!

City and factory stuff are all new to me after my predominantly village lot and I'm groping around a bit.

Wonder who he left his cloak and dagger and/or bombs to in his will?

[JBee]

Don't know if you are familiar with Birmingham at all.

There's 2 main C of E churches in the city centre of Birmingham about 1/2 - 3/4 mile apart I think (not used to distances).

St Martins in the Bull Ring and St Philips Cathedral, Colmore Row

St. Martin’s in the Bullring -

St. Philip’s Cathedral

You will see that St Philips is closest to Snow Hill - not sure where the Aston parish boundary is/was but the suburb of Aston is northeast of Snow Hill.

[Just Gillian]

Thanks JBee!

No, I have been to Birmingham only once in my life, about 30 years ago, and don't know the city or area at all. St Philip's is much bigger than I had realised. Thanks for the links.

Is Snow Hill still an industrial area?