Whos baby is this? Help needed please..

[Northern Light]

1841c, Burscough St Ormskirk Lancashire..
HO107; Piece 515; Book: 7; Civil Parish: Ormskirk; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 3; Folio: 15; Page: 24; Line: 19; GSU roll: 306902.

All born in County..
Richard Gregory head 55 Tailor
Mary Gregory wife 40
Mary Ann Gregory 10
Nancy Gregory 20
Sarah Gregory 5
Thos Gregory 15
Richd Gregory age 1
Joseph Gregory age 1
Mary Hastley reads HARTLEY age 1

Now Richard age 1 is the son of Richard and Mary Gregory NEE HARTLEY
Joseph age 1 is the son of Nancy the dau of Richard and Mary

I bought baby Marys birth cert and it says Father John Hartley Mother Sarah Hartley born 13/4/1840.

But who does Mary Hartley age 1 belong too, help needed please!

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Was the mother, Sarah Hartley, not "formerly" anything?

Have you looked at deaths in case either/both of the parents had died?

Have you found out what happened to Mary (junr)?

[Northern Light]

The marriage I found just says Hartley..not much help is it ..married in St Peters, 1820 Church Street Liverpool.

Havent looked for deaths ! but I will

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

So did the birth cert said "Mary Hartley formerly Hartley" for the mother?

I would imagine if they were married and were both originally Hartley then one might be the sibling of Mrs Gregory and the other a cousin, but it could be infinitely more complex!

This might be the death of the child

Deaths Jun 1844
HARTLEY Mary Ormskirk 21 344

as I can't see her on the next census. Where was she actually born?

[Northern Light]

Merry birth cert just says Sarah and John Hartley no formerly! Born Burscough St Ormskirk.

Ive tried to find the parents of old Mrs Gregory to see if theres any siblings on the IGI but no luck..

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

It's a miracle!!! By 1851 the two one year olds have become twins!! They are now both Mary Gregory's children!!!

Sorry, I digress.............

[Northern Light]

Lol I know Merry,

Nancy was a naughty girl she had a couple of kids before she finally married lol..

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Hmmm....bit of a nightmare, John and Sarah (esp as I had her name as Mary to begin with!)

I wonder if they were really married, or just confused the registrar? After all, he'd only been doing the job for nearly three years!!!

[Northern Light]

:D I only ask when I'm stuck! Maybe they did confuse him as they have confused me a few times!


It would help if I knew old Mary Gregorys parents but I dont and I cant find any Mary hartleys born in Ormskirk on the 1851 c either!

The death you found is the only suitable one I can find..2ndq 1844 Ormskirk vol 21 page 344

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Did John Hartley have an occupation?

[Northern Light]

Labourer!:D

Maybe old Mary had a HARTLEY kid before she married Richard?

I cant find a marriage either for a john and sarah Hartley!

[Northern Light]

Can anybody else suggest anything please?

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Go and look at a different line of your tree??

There are possible deaths for a Sarah and John Hartley between 1841 and 1851 but as they can't be found as a couple in 1841 you would be extremely lucky for both or even either, to be the right people. And even if they are adult people, how will you know they are the right people unless a Gregory registers the deaths, which is again unlikely even if they are the right deaths!

You could get the death for Mary and see if there's a relationship for the informant, but there probably won't be.

Nope. I don't have any useful ideas!!

I wonder if there is a bap for Mary?

[Northern Light]

Merry I cant find a baptism for Mary either.

I will order that death cert just to satisfy my curiosity bit Im not hopeful that it will tell me anything!

I'll put her back in the pending box and return to the Flavells..

[Northern Light]

Death cert now ordered with a despatch date of 28th May, I can only try lol..

Thanks Merry..

[Northern Light]

Well the death cert came!

Its the wrong one so back to the drawing board..