Help with Dutch ancestors

[Sandra]

Hi - bear with me, it's a long one!

My g-granddad was Dutch. I know from my late granddad's family bible that his name was Johannes Hendricus Jacobs, he was born 14th Aug 1837 in Rotterdam.

He came over to England and married an English girl in St Annes Soho in 1872. The marriage cert obviously had his fathers name on it so I knew it was Johannes Frederick Jacobs. After some advice from a lovely man on the Ancestry Dutch/Emmigration boards, I went on the Municipal Archives of Rotterdam site

Gemeentearchief Rotterdam

There I found the marriage of my g-g-grandparents -
Johannes Frederick Johannes Jacobs b1810 Gorinchem, Netherlands
married Maria Johanna Godfroij on 17th Feb 1836 in Rotterdam.

The page also gave their parents names, all for free -
Johannes Hendricus Jacobs & Joanna Geenhuijsen
and
Johannis Godfroij & Hendrika Wijmans

Then I reached a full stop, so for 4 years I haven't done a thing with this family until last week when I decided to try to pick up where I left off. Only the Municipal Archives of Rotterdam site has completely changed, and I can't find the baptisms or marriages online anymore. - I used Google to translate the pages.

Yesterday I was googling their names in the hope that someone has them on their tree, and I may be able to find a long lost Dutch cousin.

I hit gold and found all my names on this tree -

I36755 : Joannes Joannes JACOBS

I would love to contact the owner of the tree, but it is huge it has 41,168 people on it!! I can't find any contact info either.

Does anybody know where... or what site the online marriage's and baptisms of Rotterdam are (I could kick myself, as you could order the actual certs online on the site, but I didn't get round to doing it) and if someone could have a look at the above tree and find the owners contact details for me, there probably on there somewhere, just that I can't see them.

Whoever did the tree couldn't have known that Johannes came to England (and anglised his name to Henry) as they have his older sister born 26th Nov 1836, missed him out, then have the next child born 10th May 1840. It is my family, as it definitely has the same parents and grandparents.

My granddad (Albert Henry Jacobs, born 1883 in Marylebone, London) must have gone over a few times to see his rellies as I have a wonderful photo of him taken in Rotterdam. The photo is on really thick card, almost like plastic, and my g-grandmother wrote his name and date on the back. I'm so proud of the photo, I'm going to put it on here.

Sandra

[KiteRunner]

Here's something to start with...
Genlias - Zoek uw stamboom uit

[KiteRunner]

Oh sorry, they don't seem to be on that GENLias one yet. Is this the one you've already looked at?:
Gemeentearchief Rotterdam - Digitale Stamboom

[KiteRunner]

Yes, that last link I posted is the right one - click on Search and put the names in and it will come up with them. It looks as if the name is Joannes rather than Johannes on there, also Joanna rather than Johanna so I had a bit of trouble finding them at first!

[Darksecretz]

Hi Sandra

this might help.. its from our wiki..

http://www.familytreeforum.com/wiki/index.php/The_Netherlands

[Sandra]

Hi KiteRunner

That is a very helpful site, I was on that most of yesterday and today, but they don't have the records online like the Municipal Archives of Rotterdam had.

I was looking on that site this morning at the Zuid-Holland region where Rotterdam is, but they don't seem to have anything about Rotterdam.

Thanks anyway.
Sandra

edit.......... this was replying to your first post KiteRunner. Thanks for the info, I'll check the other one out now.

I'll also check out the Wiki - thanks Dark Secretz

[Sandra]

Yay - Thanks KiteRunner

So I was on the right site after all... just the wrong page. :o
This is what I had been looking for all day.

Sandra

[Sandra]

Why can't we have something like this over here. Not only does it give you both parents names, but you can also download the actual scan... all for nothing.

[Cloggie]

Oh sorry, they don't seem to be on that GENLias one yet. Is this the one you've already looked at?:
Gemeentearchief Rotterdam - Digitale Stamboom

Genlias and Digitale Stamboom (= Digital Family Tree) are two separate things. For some reason some archives join Genlias, and some have their own Digital Family Tree sites.
You can search them all at once on this site: TOP - Toegang op Personen

translation of the search form:

geslachtsnaam = surname
voorvoegsel = prefix (like "van" or "de" or "den")
voornamen = forenames
patroniem = patronymic
documentjaartal = document year
selecteer de genealogische databases = select the genealogical databases
(hold down CTRL to select more than one)
zoeken = search

[Cloggie]

I would love to contact the owner of the tree, but it is huge it has 41,168 people on it!! I can't find any contact info either.
[/IMG]

Hi Sandra,

It says you need to go to "contact info" to contact the owner of the site. To do so, you need to go to the homepage: Genealand , Stambomen in Nederland

Then click on "Contactinfo" in the menu on the left, and then fill in the form.

translation of form:
Uw naam = Your name
Emailadres = (Your) e-mail address
Type hier uw vraag of opmerking = Type your question or comment here
Verzend hem maar = Send
Velden leegmaken = Clear fields

You could just say that you would like to get in contact with the owner of the Rijsmus-Troost tree (I think that's the one you're interested in isn't it?).

[Cloggie]

I was looking on that site this morning at the Zuid-Holland region where Rotterdam is, but they don't seem to have anything about Rotterdam.

That's right. You won't find Rotterdam in Genlias because it is part of Digitale Stamboom (Digital Family Tree). Links to all the Digitale Stamboom sites can be found here: Digitaal Stambos

[Sandra]

Sarah

Thank you for the site, and the translations, I have printed them off as they will be very useful, not just with that site, but with others too. As some of the Dutch genealogy sites don't have English translation.

Could I just ask you something else as you are from 'Cloggieland'.
Is there anyway to find out what religion my Jacobs ancestors were? the reason I ask is a couple of family members look distinctly Jewish, mainly to do with the nose, and I have been told that Jacobs is a Jewish name. Although I have found births, marriages and deaths on Gemeentearchief Rotterdam - Digital Familytree, I haven't found any baptisms, could that mean they might have been Jewish?

Sandra

[Cloggie]

You're welcome, Sandra. If you need help with other translations just give me a shout.

As for how to find out the religion... I'll have to look at exactly what's on Rotterdam's site, but I think records from 1811 onwards are likely to be civil records, as that is when civil registration came in. Records before that date are likely to be church records.

According to this site: Database of Surnames in the Netherlands Jacobs is a patronymic name, meaning "son of Jacob". Can't really tell anything else just from the surname.

I'm off to make dinner now, but will check back later and see if I can find out anything more for you.

[Sandra]

Thanks Sarah, I'll certainly get back to you when I need some translating done.

[Cloggie]

Forgot to mention on my other reply (previous page) that it should be ok just to fill in a question on the contact form in English, as most Dutch people speak good English.
But if that doesn't work, let me know and I can write the question in Dutch for you.

[Cloggie]

I've just checked the Rotterdam site and the records from 1812 onwards are indeed civil records, while the records up to 1811 are church records. The list doesn't include any Jewish records (but of course the civil records could contain Jewish BMDs): Gemeentearchief Rotterdam - Digitale Stamboom - Rotterdam

[Cloggie]

Did you already find these baptisms?

Child: Elisabet Jacobs
Father: Hendrik Jacobs
Mother: Joanna Geenhuijsen
Witnesses: Josep Jacobs, Elisabet Jacobs
Place: Rotterdam
Date of baptism: 07-11-1795

Child: Joannes Jacobs
Father: Hendrik Jacobs
Mother: Joanna Geenhuijzen
Witnesses: Jan van Gerven, Maria van den Boogaard
Place: Rotterdam
Date of baptism: 16-10-1803

Child: Petrus Joannes Jacobs
Father: Joannes Henricus Jacobs
Mother: Joanna Geenhuizen
Witnesses: Nicolaas Hoosman, Petronella Jacobs
Place: Rotterdam
Date of baptism: 11-07-1807
Date of birth: 10-07-1807

Child: Joannes Joannes Jacobs
Father: Joannes Henricus Jacobs
Mother: Joanna Geenhuizen
Witnesses: Joannes van Gerven, Maria van den Boogaard
Place: Rotterdam
Date of baptism: 10-08-1810
Remarks child: 9 Aug onder Cool geboren


I think this last one could be your Joannes. No mention of the middle name "Frederick" though. You only have that on his son's marriage certificate, right? Maybe the birth record has been mistranscribed? You would have to order a photocopy or scan of the original to check. Or maybe "Frederick" was added later?

[Cloggie]

from Genlias:

Source Civil register - Marriage
Archive location Stadsarchief Gorinchem
General Municipality: Gorinchem
Type of record: Huwelijksakte
Record number: 25
Registration date: 09-05-1822
Groom Johannes Valken
Age: 24
Place of birth: Gorinchem
Bride Maria Josepha Jacobs
Age: 21
Place of birth: Gorinchem
Father groom Johannes Valken
Mother groom Eva Barbara Ruijs
Father bride Hendrik Jacobs
Mother bride Joanna Geenehuijzen

Johannes' sister's marriage perhaps?

[Cloggie]

There I found the marriage of my g-g-grandparents -
Johannes Frederick Johannes Jacobs b1810 Gorinchem, Netherlands
married Maria Johanna Godfroij on 17th Feb 1836 in Rotterdam.

The page also gave their parents names, all for free -
Johannes Hendricus Jacobs & Joanna Geenhuijsen
and
Johannis Godfroij & Hendrika Wijmans

Hi Sandra,

I don't know if you realise, but there are actually 6 pages, not just the 1. Click on the little squares at the top of the page with the scan, and then you can download each scanned page individually.
(volgende = next; vorige = previous)

The scans include the "marriage supplements", documents that had to be presented in order to get married:
- 1st page is the marriage record
- 2nd page is an extract of Joannes' baptism record (Roman Catholic)
- 3rd page is proof of Johannes' military service, including a physical description of him
- 4th page is an extract of Hendrik Jacobs' death record
- 5th page is an extract of Maria Joanna's baptism record (Roman Catholic)
- 6th page is an extract of Hendrika Wijmans' death record

I don't think the 1st page is the full marriage record, but may be an extract from the register, because of the "B.S. Rotterdam" (BS = Burgerlijke Stand = Civil Register) stamp at the bottom left of the page. Also it doesn't contain all the details I have seen on other marriage records - normally they also include the address and the names and occupations of the witnesses.

By the way, according to the military service record Joannes was born in Rotterdam, and his baptism record is also from Rotterdam. I don't see any mention of Gorinchem. Also no mention of the middle name Frederik.

[Cloggie]

My g-granddad was Dutch. I know from my late granddad's family bible that his name was Johannes Hendricus Jacobs, he was born 14th Aug 1837 in Rotterdam.

Checking back through your first post, I can't find the above birth on the Rotterdam site.

Is that info only from the family bible, or have you got his birth certificate?