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History of the Catholic church in this country?

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  • History of the Catholic church in this country?

    A lot of OH's side were Roman Catholic. Years ago I was sent some sketchy info for part of it and am now thinking about going into it more thoroughly.

    This family were from Coton in Staffordshire and the dates are going to be around the 1750-1800 time, mostly baptisms and burials.

    I'm thinking that the nearest church would be in Stafford, but then it occured to me that Catholics were prohibited from legally practicing their faith for some time.

    Anyone know when they were allowed again and the building of Catholic churches began?

    I have a marriage in 1821 for St Mary's Stafford, but there seems to be a few of that name and was it RC?
    Also one on the IGI in 1775 for Tixall, Staffs. RC or not?

  • #2
    Even after the practicing of the Catholic faith was re-established (think 1807? but that might be competely wrong!!) you still couldn't marry in a Cathilic ceremony until 1837 (C of E, Quaker or Jewish until then)

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    • #3
      I think I made up 1807!

      Catholic Emancipation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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      • #4
        I have some baptisms for the Kiddington RC Chapel in Oxfordshire from the 1780's.

        I know I have read about priests still baptising children into the RC faith even though they had to marry in a Cof E.

        I wonder if I email the RC diocese in Birmingham they will be able to advise me.

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        • #5
          It says in Anthony Adolph's book that most anti-Catholic laws were lifted by the Catholic Relief Acts of 1778 and 1791, and then the rest (more or less) by the Catholic Emancipation Act in 1829.
          KiteRunner

          Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
          (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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          • #6
            I've just emailed the archivist in the Catholic diocese in Birmingham, that also covers Staffordshire.

            I know you can go to Birmingham to search the registers as OH went years ago to search the Oxfordshire ones, but the dates were later than the ones I need now.

            I just want to know which churches.

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            • #7
              Hugh Wallis lists some RC churches by location. Also, do a library search on IGI for the locations and see what records the LDS have; they may not have filmed the records, but may have listed where they are held, or an alternative source.

              What about our POW on the wiki?

              I wish you luck - RC records are quite difficult to access, usually.

              OC

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              • #8
                i know a rev hisslop a catholick priest wrote a book called the 2 babylons you can get this from the libarary he discusses the catholick faith and beleifs you might find it in there brenda xxx

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                • #9
                  If you are establishing a number of RC religion within your ancestry and going back to the 1700's then they may have gone back even further and are recusants. In this case have you thought of joining the Catholic Record Society, which is much dearer than most other Family History Societies at around £18, but included within the price is one book a year which throws some light on recusancy? They also run anual conferences and did have a very extensive library in London. I say did because it shut for a while and I am not sure where or when it reopened. You can google Catholic Record Society for more information

                  Rule of thumb for those looking at RC Records in UK (not including Ireland which has always been different!!) is that although Catholic Emancipation took place 1829 and made everything legal, from about 1750 onwards there is much leniency towards the Catholic Religion even though there is still a lot of suspicion!

                  Janet

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                  • #10
                    Sorry, cost of Catholic Record Society has increased since I was last looking. My OH belongs to the Society and goes to the conferences. He has purchased many of their books some of which have helped me with my Northants Ancestry.

                    See website below:

                    Catholic Record Society Home Page

                    Janet
                    Last edited by Janet; 20-05-08, 11:16.

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                    • #11
                      I have one branch on my tree who were determinedly Roman Catholic from the year dot and still are today, despite having been persecuted many times.

                      They, in common with many better-off RC families, had a private chapel in their homes and no records survive, if indeed they were ever kept.

                      However, this RC family was also baptised in the C of E and buried in the C of E churchyard (marked Papist in the burial register). Poorer RC families had little choice other than to be baptised in the C of E church, otherwise they wouldn't be entitled to settlement rights and poor relief. Being RC was often a very private matter which took place behind closed doors.

                      OC

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                      • #12
                        I am actually on two sides of the camp. I personally fall into the category where my lot were all baptised C of E whether catholic or not, but OH 's side are actually baptised Catholic back to mid 1700's at Bembridge and Chideock, where there are big catholic connections with the Smythe and Weld families and good records. The Welds are also in the Liverpool area as Weld Blundell. His family were poor stock, many of whom died young of consumption and lived in one of the poorer ares of Southampton. They would go to Bembridge Mass Centre, near Eastleigh, and were all baptised in this centre from about 1740 onwards. You can actually find catholic areas that you can hook your ancestors into. It is just a question of knowing where they were, and who the families are, which is where the Catholic Record Society would help. Northants had the Treshams, Catesby and the Vaux families but they paid so much in recusancy fines that they died out, but still worth tracing back, if you can hook into these families or your ancestors worked for these families. Recusancy fines is one record that people make little use of, if they have catholic ancestors, though to pay the fines you have to have money. But also don't forget that anybody working for these families, including ag labs would have allegiance to the rich catholic families, which would include belonging to the same religion and if it was a private chapel, then even your humble ag lab may have been baptised there and there is a good chance that records may have survived but the CRS will help you with this. Don't forget also that records of recusants had to be kept, because the government wanted the fines and we all know about the Papist Returns. You would be surprised at the number that have survived. The CRS have produced many lists of Recusants and Papist Returns.

                        Janet
                        Last edited by Janet; 20-05-08, 13:29.

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                        • #13
                          Thank you for all of your replies, very helpful all of them.

                          I don't think I would go as far as joining a society, this is only one side of OH's line, his maternal grandmother's ancestors. We have traced recent stuff, last 150 years or so. A lot of parish priests were very helpful and welcoming, especially the one at the time in Burton who offered us his office in the presbetary with endless coffee while we looked at original records. Oh dear when I think back, what if we had spilt it :o

                          The dates I am after are earlier than this and I was sent, as I said, very sketchy info some time ago by a distant cousin of OH who's other cousin had done the research. This info had names and some dates but hardly any places of churches or even towns sometimes.
                          There is a little info on the IGI, mostly marriages which are probably C of E anyway.

                          My nearest LDS centre is Lichfield but isn't possible for me to get to, don't drive. Birmingham is possible at the diocese office as I could get a train. It's just getting the time to go with enough time there to research, I am OH's full time carer. I will manage it sometime though.

                          Awaiting a reply from the Diocean archivist with an idea as to which church or RC chapel.

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                          • #14
                            margaret sent you a pm,brenda xxx

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                            • #15
                              I've a marriage in Edinburgh Parish Church in 1822 but it wasn't until I couldn't find any christenings that I looked at the RC records and lo and behold there was the marriage and the christenings. It was only the Banns that had been at Edinburgh Parish Church, though their children married in all sorts of different churches, Parish, Tron, St Cuthberts etc. (OH was horrified to find he had RC direct ancestors - he says I must have got the wrong line)!!!!

                              I then looked for the wife's birth but with only the father's name and a possibility of 3 different mothers I was stumped. Her death certificate unusually didn't give her parents names!!!!!

                              In Bishopwearmouth, Sunderland Co Durham I found the baptisms of another family in the RC church but no marriage and if correct the mother was christened C of E in Wallsend. My trip up to Newcastle records office didn't produce any marriage either.



                              Researching Irish families: FARMER, McBRIDE McQUADE, McQUAID, KIRK, SANDS/SANAHAN (Cork), BARR,

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by JBee View Post
                                (OH was horrified to find he had RC direct ancestors - he says I must have got the wrong line)!!!!
                                Tell him not to worry; all of us who have European ancestors will have catholic ancestors if we can get back far enough!!! lol

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                                • #17
                                  And if you can get your ancestors back to pre-reformation times in UK they are all Catholics, well except for a very few!!!!

                                  I should also say that as an example of what you can get from the CRS is their excellent magazine called "Recusant History" and in 2008 is an excellent chapter on Liverpool's "Catholic Ships Captains," 1745 to 1807, giving names and vessels of many of them, about 41.

                                  Janet
                                  Last edited by Janet; 20-05-08, 13:24.

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                                  • #18
                                    Got your pm Bren


                                    Just had a reply from the archivist in Birmingham.

                                    All it says is that all of their info is on the A2A site.

                                    I hate that site and I don't know what church. I have asked him to clarify which church I am going to need. Not holding out much hope, doesn't seem to want to help much.

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                                    • #19
                                      Yes but the funny thing is he's married to one!!!!!!!! and kids have been dragged up RC too!!!!



                                      Researching Irish families: FARMER, McBRIDE McQUADE, McQUAID, KIRK, SANDS/SANAHAN (Cork), BARR,

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                                      • #20
                                        Whereabouts in Staffordshire is Coton?

                                        There's 3 in Staffordshire

                                        1. Near Gnosall west of Stafford - served by St Austin, Stafford
                                        2. Midway between Stone and Uttoxeter - probably served by St Mary's Uttoxeter or The Immaculate Conception and St Dominic, Stone
                                        3. North west of Tamworth, Staffs - served by St John the Baptist

                                        1a. St Austin, Stafford seems to date from 1813
                                        Tel: 01785 223553
                                        email staustinrc@aol.com

                                        2a, St Mary's Uttoxeter seems to date from 1835
                                        Tel 01889 562082 website catholicchurch@uttoxeter.org.uk

                                        2b. The Immaculate Conception and St Dominic seems to date from 1842 Tel 01785 813951 email: parish@stdominic.charitydays.co.uk

                                        3. St John the Baptist Church at Tamworth which seems to date from 1815.
                                        Tel: 01827 62161/2 email: office@stjohntamworth.demon.co.uk

                                        There's also a RC church at Cotton, Oakmoor, Staffs.
                                        St Wilfrids - records seem to date from 1845: but served from St Giles, Cheadle which seems to date from 1823 - Tel: 01538 753130 no email.



                                        Researching Irish families: FARMER, McBRIDE McQUADE, McQUAID, KIRK, SANDS/SANAHAN (Cork), BARR,

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