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Can anyone find Phoebe?

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  • Can anyone find Phoebe?

    I've lost somebody on two censuses; I spent ages looking yesterday, with no luck.

    The lady in question is Phoebe Tarry, lacemaker, born Potterspury, Northamptonshire, c. 1825, daughter of Richard and Susannah Tarry.

    According to the IGI (entries beginning with I, doesn't say whether they're submitted or extracted), she had 5 illegitimate children. Two of them died in their 1st year, and her mother seems to have brought up the others.

    In 1851 Phoebe's still at home with widowed mother Susannah, various siblings, and Susannah's grandsons Richard and Edward, who are almost certainly Phoebe's children (I don't have any certs yet).

    After that she disappears, to resurface in 1876 when, at the age of 51, she marries Joseph Church, a widower 10 years her junior with 2 young children, in Potterspury.

    I'm curious to know where Phoebe was in 1861 and 1871. Her last illegitimate child, David, was born in the last quarter of 1861, but there's no sign of her on the 1861 census. I've tried everything I can think of - various spellings of Phoebe, with and without a surname, Tarry without a Christian name, no name at all but her approximate age and birthplace, and even checked the workhouse, but I can't find her at all.

    This was a poor family - Susannah was listed as a pauper on various censuses, and Phoebe's brother George and his son were in the workhouse in 1891.

    No-one in her family emigrated as far as I know; they mostly seem to have spent their lives in Potterspury, apart from the odd few who crossed the border to Bucks, and an adventurous family who went to London. I've followed her parents and siblings through the censuses, and she isn't with any of them.

    Can anyone see anything I've missed?

    1851 census: Class: HO107; Piece: 1737; Folio: 63; Page: 45
    1881 census: Class: RG11; Piece: 1537; Folio: 74; Page: 28

  • #2
    Where was the Q4 1861 child born?

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    • #3
      Oops, Potterspury

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      • #4
        All 5 were baptised in Potterspury, and I've found most of them on FreeBMD.

        The batch number is I007468. It looks as though somebody's extracted them from PRs.

        The children are:

        Edward b. 1847
        Richard b. 1849
        Edward bap. 1851
        William b. 1853, d. 1854
        David b. 1861 d. 1862
        all in Potterspury.

        Edward 1851 is the only one who doesn't tie in with the census dates - Phoebe's long-suffering mum brought up an Edward born c. 1857.
        Last edited by Mary from Italy; 19-05-08, 20:16.

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        • #5
          Here's Susanna in 1861 with her son George and Phoebe's two children: Richard and the younger Edward.

          1861 census: Class: RG9; Piece: 928; Folio: 58; Page: 33

          The older Edward presumably died between 1849 and 1851 (if the IGI dates are accurate), but I can't find a death for him.

          I can't find a birth for the grandson Edward born c. 1857 living with Susannah in 1861, so he may not be one of Phoebe's children.

          The only other Edward born in the area is this one:

          Births Mar 1853 (>99%)
          Tarry Edward Brixworth 3b 116
          Last edited by Mary from Italy; 19-05-08, 20:34.

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          • #6
            Two possible births for the last Edward:

            Births Jun 1857 (>99%)
            Tarry Male Northampton 3b 55

            Births Dec 1858 (>99%)
            Tarry Eave William Brixworth 3b 123

            There was a workhouse at Brixworth, so that may be a possibility.

            No imagine on Ancestry for the second one - I'm just waiting for the FreeBMD image to download (they're always very slow).

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            • #7
              I am always suspicious when someone is missing for two censuses!

              I've read the above several times, and my brain has turned to marshmallow.......

              Are any of Phoebe's children missing on the 1861/71 census (those you have proved exist that is!)

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              • #8
                Brixworth is a long way from Potterspury

                Tarry is a Northants name- what I mean by that is is wasn't a rare name round here, unless they are all descended from Potterpury.

                its more than Likely that it was one of the Brampton lot that registered at Brixworth.

                'Spose i could talk a wander up to the Northamptonshire RO for you.;)
                Last edited by Jessbowbag; 19-05-08, 21:01.
                Jess

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                • #9
                  I am always suspicious when someone is missing for two censuses!
                  Yes, me too. I don't absolutely need to find her, because I know when she was baptised, married and died, but it's got me curious (this isn't even my tree, it's one I'm doing for my BiL )

                  Are any of Phoebe's children missing on the 1861/71 census (those you have proved exist that is!)
                  As I said, I haven't found a death for the first Edward: I'm assuming he did die because Phoebe had two sons of that name (if the IGI is correct). I shall have to try and get hold of the PRs, I think.

                  In 1871 there are an Edward W Tarry (c. 1859) and Ann Tarry (c. 1861), grandchildren, living with poor old Susannah Tarry, pauper. No idea whose child Ann is.

                  The image for "Eave" Tarry has now downloaded. It looks like Cave William Tarry. Definitely doesn't start with an E.
                  Last edited by Mary from Italy; 19-05-08, 21:09.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jessbowbag View Post
                    Brixworth is a long way from Potterspury
                    True, Potterspury workhouse would have been the nearest.

                    Tarry is a Northants name- what I mean by that is is wasn't a rare name round here, unless they are all descended from Potterpury.
                    Yes, I know. There are lots in my BiL's tree, which is centred on Potterspury. The villagers only seem to have half a dozen names between them, so his tree's also full of Tapps, Meakinses, Greens and Abrams

                    'Spose i could talk a wander up to the Northamptonshire RO for you.;)
                    Ooh, that's an interesting offer!

                    Don't make a special trip on my account, though, but if you have to go for yourself, I can make you a very long list of things to look for

                    I suspect the Poor Law records are going to be full of Tarrys and Tapps.

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                    • #11
                      Cave William Tarry it is - just found his marriage on FreeBMD. I don't think he's one of Phoebe's family - I haven't seen a name like that on the censuses, but I'll take a look.

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                      • #12
                        there is an older Cave Tarry , again the Brampton lot.

                        Special trip on your account - really, dont worry about it - i can see the place out of the bedroom window!!its that close
                        Jess

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                        • #13
                          Found Cave William now on the census - family comes from Holcot, no connection that I can see.

                          i can see the place out of the bedroom window!!its that close
                          My goodness, that's convenient

                          OK, thanks very much. I'll have a think and make a few notes of the things I'm most interested in.

                          There's somebody in my own tree I want to check out there as well - he died in Blixworth Workhouse, but I gather from the online catalogue that the RO doesn't have the admission and discharge books. Have you done any workhouse or Poor Law research there yourself?

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                          • #14
                            there is an older Cave Tarry , again the Brampton lot.
                            If you mean Rebecca Cave's brother it's the same one - they've mistranscribed his age.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mary from Italy View Post
                              Found Cave William now on the census - family comes from Holcot, no connection that I can see.



                              My goodness, that's convenient

                              OK, thanks very much. I'll have a think and make a few notes of the things I'm most interested in.

                              There's somebody in my own tree I want to check out there as well - he died in Blixworth Workhouse, but I gather from the online catalogue that the RO doesn't have the admission and discharge books. Have you done any workhouse or Poor Law research there yourself?

                              No because I am a county Alien! no of mine ever came here, all Berks/Herts based so Northants CRO is about as much good as a chocolate teapot to me.
                              Jess

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                              • #16
                                I forgot to say that Phoebe's son Richard Tarry b. 1849 is missing in 1871. The only Richard Tarry death between 1861 and 1871 is at Pancras - don't know what he'd be doing there.

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Jessbowbag View Post
                                  No because I am a county Alien! no of mine ever came here, all Berks/Herts based so Northants CRO is about as much good as a chocolate teapot to me.
                                  Bad choice of house, that

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                                  • #18
                                    Just thought I'd mention that I have loads of Tarrys fron Northants and when the 1901 census came out I searched for ages for my grandad Arthur Tarry who should have been about 8, eventually found the family had been mistranscribed as Farry, something to do with the way they wrote the old fashioned captial 'T'. Mine are mostly from Creaton and Northampton town itself.
                                    :D Carolyn

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                                    • #19
                                      Hi Carolyn,

                                      Yes, I've found some of ours transcribed as Farry as well. I did try searching for Phoebe with no surname, but even that didn't give any results.

                                      All our Tarrys so far are from Potterspury and Leicester; I'll let you know if I find any from Creaton or Northampton.

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