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Joseph and Phoebe Kirk or Turner ..... more help please

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  • Joseph and Phoebe Kirk or Turner ..... more help please

    With loads of help from Merry (thanks Merry), we managed to find my Joseph Kirk before his marriage to Phoebe Sharratt in 1866 and we also think on the 1871 census although they seem to be known as Turner by then (his mother's maiden name)

    1851 transcribed as Huk HO107; Piece: 2084; Folio: 174; Page: 20

    1861 with his grandparents, parents are a couple of lines below
    RG9; Piece: 2268; Folio: 38; Page: 38

    1871 now known as Turner RG10; Piece: 2894; Folio: 22; Page: 9

    I have 2 questions:

    Can anyone find any sign of Joseph and Phoebe or their children after 1871?

    Why would he suddenly take his mothers maiden name? He married as Kirk.

  • #2
    Have had a good go at them in 1881 .... but if Merry hasn't found them then there's not much hope for the rest of us

    just thought I'd post this in case you think nobody's looking
    ~ FOR PHOTO RESTORATIONS PLEASE SCAN AT A RESOLUTION OF 300-600 WITH THE SCALE AT 100% MINIMUM ~ http://restoreandcolour.brainwaving.co.uk

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    • #3
      im looking- just for ref

      Ann E Turner abt 1870 Stourbridge, Worcestershire, England Daughter
      Joseph Turner abt 1847 Church Greasley, Leicestershire, England Head
      Phoebe Turner abt 1845 Newborough, Wife
      Samuel Turner abt 1867 Oakthorpe, Derbyshire, England Son Abbots

      all in Abbots Bromley, Staffordshire in 71
      Jess

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      • #4
        Why would he suddenly take his mothers maiden name? He married as Kirk.[/QUOTE]

        My great grandfather did a similar thing. He is on 2 censi with the name of his 'father', He marries with a double barrelled name, his mother and father. He then drops fathers name and is on the next censi with his mothers maiden name. One of his children was baptised with both names, and the others all have his mothers maiden name, which has passed down to present day. My theory is that it was not his proper father ;)
        Pam

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        • #5
          Yes, that's the one Jess.

          Hiding well aren't they?

          Any idea why he might have started to use his mothers maiden name?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Pamdidle View Post
            Why would he suddenly take his mothers maiden name? He married as Kirk.
            My great grandfather did a similar thing. He is on 2 censi with the name of his 'father', He marries with a double barrelled name, his mother and father. He then drops fathers name and is on the next censi with his mothers maiden name. One of his children was baptised with both names, and the others all have his mothers maiden name, which has passed down to present day. My theory is that it was not his proper father ;)[/quote]

            That had occured to me Pam.

            I wonder if he found out after his marriage that he was born before his parents married. Perhaps he was older than he was told he was.

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            • #7
              But he wasn't born before his parents married, was he?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Merry Monty Montgomery View Post
                But he wasn't born before his parents married, was he?
                Not if his age is right on the census, I'm just trying to work out why he changed his name.

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                • #9
                  These may not be him (there aren't any more!) as he was aged 3 in 1851:

                  Births Mar 1849
                  KIRK Joseph Burton on T 17 15
                  Kirk Joseph Burton on Tr 17 16

                  If he was b before his parents married then he would really have need to be at least 5 by the next census:

                  Marriages Sep 1846
                  Kirk Thomas Ashby de la Z 15 9
                  Turner Mary Ann Ashby de la Zouch 15 9

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                  • #10
                    There are no Joseph Turner births in Burton on Trent around the right time, so we can't prove anything that way..........

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                    • #11
                      Merry

                      I know the census says Church Gresley which does come under Burton but Oakthorpe where they are in 1851 is in Ashby de la Zouch district.

                      There are these 2

                      Joseph Kirk sep 1846 vol 15 page 6

                      Joseph Kirk sep 1847 vol 15 page 2

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                      • #12
                        Maybe Joseph was living with his Turner grandparents in 1861 because his father, Thomas, had discovered Joseph wasn't his son and thrown him out?? He wasn't going to throw his wife out too, as someone had to look after the other children!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Merry Monty Montgomery View Post
                          Maybe Joseph was living with his Turner grandparents in 1861 because his father, Thomas, had discovered Joseph wasn't his son and thrown him out?? He wasn't going to throw his wife out too, as someone had to look after the other children!
                          You could be right.

                          Still doesn't help find them after 1871 does it

                          grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

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                          • #14
                            I've moved over to your photo thread!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Merry Monty Montgomery View Post
                              I've moved over to your photo thread!
                              I know I saw you there :D:D

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