Joseph Kirk...is he a bigamist?

[Margaret in Burton]

I have been sent the marriage cert of Joseph Kirk to Pheobe Sharratt on 14 Aug 1866 in Newborough, Staffs. I had only previously glanced the parish register entry.

both are of full age and bachelor and spinster
Joseph is a basket maker
His place of abode, St Peter's, Walsall, Staffs

Joseph's father is Thomas Kirk a collier

Her father as expected Thomas Sharratt a labourer, witnessed Samuel and Elizabeth Sharratt

Cannot find them on any census after that date, nor a death for either.
I think I have a photo of her anyway taken about 1900.
The census entry for a Joseph and Phoebe Turner that Elaine found the other day is a red herring as they are also on the 1861 census together.

The trouble is, my contact has also sent me a 2nd marriage cert for 22 Sep 1878 of a Joseph Kirk and Jane Richards. St Matthews church Walsall

Joseph a bachelor age 30, a plasterer. Father Thomas Kirk a caster.

I can find Joseph and Jane on the 1881 census.

I can also see a Joseph Kirk with father Thomas a caster on all census from 1851- 1871. He is listed as unmarried in 1871.

Do I have two different Joseph's or do I have one that left Phoebe after the marriage in 1866 and then commited Bigamy in 1878?

ooh just noticed. Joseph in 1866 signed his name and in 1878 made his mark

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

When and where was Phoebe born?

[vikki brace]

on what you have said, i'd go for them being 2 different people.

its the signature thing, but I could be so far off the mark!!!

I found a bigamist using the old bailey online site.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Anything beginning with K is fraught with difficulty! Have you tried looking at R surnames?

[vikki brace]

You say you found Joseph 2 on 1851-1871 with father and then Joseph and Jane in 1881

Have you found Joseph 1 on any census? with or without a father?

[Margaret in Burton]

When and where was Phoebe born?

Phoebe was born in 1844 in Newborough, Staffs. Could also say Hoarcross or Hoar Cross or any of loads of mistranscriptions.:(

[Margaret in Burton]

Anything beginning with K is fraught with difficulty! Have you tried looking at R surnames?

No I haven't, will try that.

[Margaret in Burton]

You say you found Joseph 2 on 1851-1871 with father and then Joseph and Jane in 1881

Have you found Joseph 1 on any census? with or without a father?

No, I haven't.

Trouble is I don't know his age as marriage cert only says of full age and that he was living in Walsall at the time of his marriage. Obviously doesn't mean he was born there.

[vikki brace]

Well I've had a really good look and can't find Joseph number 1.

Sorry

[Margaret in Burton]

Neither can I Vikki

I wonder if they emigrated?

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

On the FindMyPast version of the 1861 census there are two Joseph Kirks b 1847 living in the reg district of Ashby-de-la-Zouch. One of them is a basket maker. Of course, I can only find the other one on Ancestry!

From playing with the index, I don't think there is anyone else called Kirk in the household of the basket maker. He was born in Derby*

[Margaret in Burton]

Oh now I'm excited Merry

RG9; Piece: 2268; Folio: 38; Page: 38

He is grandson with a family called Turner and that is what I thought was red herring when Elaine found a Joseph and Pheobe Turner. Him born
Gresley, Derbyshire and her born Newborough, Staffs.

I could hug you;)


this one Merry

RG10; Piece: 2894; Folio: 22; Page: 9

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Oooh!! lol

Is that his parents two lines further down (in 1861)??

[Margaret in Burton]

mmmmmmmm confusing

I have just found that Joseph Kirk on the 1851.

HO107; Piece: 2011; Folio: 479; Page: 25

It looks like his father is John Kirk not Thomas but he is a coalminer otherwise a collier as in the marriage cert.

What do you think?

[Margaret in Burton]

Oooh!! lol

Is that his parents two lines further down (in 1861)??

Oh blimey

I'm gonna have to get a bit of paper and write this down, getting complicated.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

He is Joseph Huk in 1851 aged 3.

Parents Thomas and Mary Ann and born Church Gresley.

[Margaret in Burton]

The Joseph on the 1851

his mother Frances is from Walsall, that ties in

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Eh?? Who is Frances?? I thought his mum was Mary Ann:

Marriages Sep 1846
Collier Lydia Ashby de la Zch 15 9
Kirk Thomas Ashby de la Z 15 9 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Turner Mary Ann Ashby de la Zouch 15 9 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Yeomans George Ashby de la Zouch 15 9

[Margaret in Burton]

oooh

looks like I have the wrong one in 1851 then

will have another look

sorry

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Try HUK !! lol