Russian name translate query

[quiffdo]

Hi all

I have recently been researching the Rosenthal family and have had alot of contact with a very helpful lady who lives in Connecticut where alot of the Rosenthals moved to.

Now my question is, she recently told me that Barnett Rosenthal's name is Dov Beer in Russia.

How do you think she came up with that?

Danny

[BridgetM]

Can you not ask her?
(Or am I being too obvious?)

Bridget

[quiffdo]

That is the obvious thing to do. But we email days apart and im sort of itching to see if i can translate other family names to search for.

Danny

[Olde Crone Holden]

I'm not at all sure of my facts here, but have a vague memory that Russian surnames are used in a different way from ours and a person might have several different names depending on the circumstances. (Daily life, religious life, family connections etc)

Dov Beer sounds like a name used in synagogue to me.If so, that would reflect his descent from King David.

OC

[quiffdo]

Hey OC

Although im not sure how to work out the way to translate the name that has given me somethhing to look into.

Thankyou

[maggie_4_7]

Yes I think OC is right again (religious perhaps) and I think its used as a first name rather than a family name.

I could be completely wrong of course and got the wrong end of the stick.

However, I have heard of two Rabbis using that name.

edit to say: I think its of the Hasidic branch again its those things you pick up over the years and I could have got it wrong not understanding Judaism and its different branches...

[quiffdo]

Hi Maggie

Thankyou for your help, im starting to understand that jewish people had to many names to follow lol

Danny

[Mary from Italy]

Yes, I think OC must be right about it being a Jewish name - I have a tiny Russian dictionary and I checked to see if Dov Beer is Russian for Rose Valley (which is what the German Rosenthal means, I think), but it isn't.

It looks as though Dov is actually a Hebrew name meaning "bear":

russianjews.org - Jewish Names

[maggie_4_7]

Rosenthal means Rose Valley that I do know.

The Hasidics originate from Poland but there are so many different routes of Judaism. However, Judaism doesn't like to differentiate between different practices of their faith and are very careful to avoid labelling 'people'.

Some information and also two 'people' named Dov Beer mentioned...

History of the Hasidic Movement

[quiffdo]

Thankyou Mary

I wish i knew what Israel and Barnett Rosenthal's names were in Russia.

I know know that they came from a place called Suwalki which is now in Poland.

Danny

[Olde Crone Holden]

It isn't a question of translating a Russian name into English, it is a completely different name and not much use for tracing family history, although if you can get at the synagogue records (and read Hebrew!) it will give an indication of his main family line through his mother's relatives.

OC

[maggie_4_7]

Thankyou Mary

I wish i knew what Israel and Barnett Rosenthal's names were in Russia.

I know know that they came from a place called Suwalki which is now in Poland.

Danny

Its possible it was in Poland before it was in Russia and now back to Poland!

Poland had a terrible time in the beginning of the 20 century.

If its on the border who knows.

Edit there you go:

Suwałki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It seems a concise view of what happened there. Its been overthrown by anyone that had the power or means over the centurys. Poland has always been a fighting ground it seems something that triggered the second world war I believe, no one ever knows where the border is as we don't for many European countries until we start fighting.

[quiffdo]

Atleast i know the place of origin now. i shall now start to find out where the nearest synagogues were to where they lived.

Danny

[Olde Crone Holden]

I honestly don't think you will find much on line about individual synagogues - most Russian/Polish ones were completely destroyed.

Have you tried the Jewishgen website? Understandably, there is very little Jewish family history online, but Jewishgen can be very helpful in a discreet sort of way.

However - your contact has information giving the Jewish name, so maybe wait till you hear from her again as she has obviously some knowledge of where they came from.

OC

[Little Nell]

Dov is definitely Jewish, my husband's Jewish branch have "synagogue" names which I've found on Jewishgen.

Their everyday names are just as maddening - you just replace Smith & Jones with Hart & Phillips, and first names, although not necessarily Jewish, run in families, so whereas the gentile branches are all Sarahs and Emilys, the Jewish girls are all Rosettas and Bettys!

[garstonite]

i don`t know if its any help but this may be worth a try...my f.i.l. was Ukranian...his village Rohatyn(polish) or Rogatyn(ukraine) changed from Poland to Ukraine many times over the years,and i have had a lot of help on the message board of ....ukraine.com ...there are a couple of professors on this site,and they use it as an education for their students as well as trying to help English people doing family research...i`ve found them a massive bonus for me....good luck....allan;););)