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  • Baptised but not registered?

    Whilst searching through RC parish baptism records I came across an additional child I didn't know about.

    I cannot find a birth or death for the child and a later sibling has same first christian name - haven't found his birth reg either although has found sisters



    Researching Irish families: FARMER, McBRIDE McQUADE, McQUAID, KIRK, SANDS/SANAHAN (Cork), BARR,

  • #2
    details? name? place? date?
    ~ with love from Little Nell~
    Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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    • #3
      Sorry been catching up.

      I was just wondering whether it was usual just to have a child baptised and not registered.

      The details are:-

      Parents Dorothy and Thomas (McDermid(e)/McDenmick/McDermott/McDarmond)

      George Mc Dermide b 1/1/1837 bapt 22/4/1837 died Mar qtr 1842 Durham

      I found Thomas Alexander McDermott b 27 Oct 1838 - bapt 21 Nov 1838 (no birth or death registration) baptism in St Mary's RC Bishopwearmouth Durham Parish Records. with George's although different surname spelling.

      In 1841 census George McDenmick age 5 who died the following year but no sign of Thomas jnr.

      Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 314; Book: 9; Civil Parish: Pittington; County: Durham; Enumeration District: 14; Folio: 32; Page: 14; Line: 6; GSU roll: 241355.

      In 1851 census there's now Elizabeth McDermott b 27/5/1843 Cassop Hill, Durham and another Thomas McDermott b c1846 Moorsley, Durham
      (haven't found his birth yet)

      Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2386; Folio: 250; Page: 60; GSU roll: 87064.

      Thomas McDermott snr died 1858 in Bishop Auckland (wife registered death)
      Dorothy McDermott died 1866 in Stockton, (Yarm) Durham (Thomas Smith registered death).

      Thomas snr was a coal miner so moved around the pit villages of Durham.



      Researching Irish families: FARMER, McBRIDE McQUADE, McQUAID, KIRK, SANDS/SANAHAN (Cork), BARR,

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      • #4
        JBee

        Quite normal to have a child baptised but not registered in my experience. Parents often did one or the other, but not both, before 1875.

        OC

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        • #5
          The earlier the registration the less likely people bothered. But in my research I have found that most of my & husband's ancestors' births were registered.

          Have you checked for the surname only, as babies were sometimes registered as Male/Female without first names.
          ~ with love from Little Nell~
          Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

          Comment


          • #6
            My gypsy families baptised threir children but did not register them, apart from when they where were living in scotland where I believe registation was more strict.

            another of my families where the father was illigitimate registered the children with a different surname then that they were were baptisied with! very confusing!!!!

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            • #7
              as you can see I've had fun with the surname already.

              I looked through the index at ancestry for Thomas Alexander McD* and didn't see any version that would fit.

              I've only just managed to find Elizabeth's birth certificate in 1843.



              Researching Irish families: FARMER, McBRIDE McQUADE, McQUAID, KIRK, SANDS/SANAHAN (Cork), BARR,

              Comment


              • #8
                OH's great-great grandfather was born in December 1850 and was baptised, but his birth was not registered.

                He was the last of 10 children, and all the others (born after civil registration was introduced) were registered.

                It was only when I visited the LMA that I found his baptism, but no death registration. Interestingly, his mother died between the 1851 and the 1861 census, and I can't find a death registration for her either.

                It's so frustrating... It is always "a loose end".
                Elizabeth
                Research Interests:
                England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yes, I agree Elizabeth. I have a few folk who just disappear. Sometimes they have really common names so I can't tell whether any of the deaths in the indexes are them or not, but then I have Antonetta Trundler Browning who just vanishes after 1871. No trace of remarriage, death or emigration. Wretched woman!
                  ~ with love from Little Nell~
                  Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yes, Little Nell -

                    OH's great-grandfather is George Newton, and the mother for whom I need a death registration is Jane Newton.

                    I have wasted quite a lot of money on incorrect certificates! I have given up now. I'm trying to find the burial instead!

                    You'd think you could find Antonetta Trundler Browning, wouldn't you!
                    Elizabeth
                    Research Interests:
                    England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                    Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yes, but even the mighty forces on FTF have failed. Don't get me started on my fruitless quest for the only gt gt grandfather whose death cert I can't find - William Williams, who helpfully has a different age and different birthplace (all plausible) on every one of the all 5 censuses he appears on!

                      I have two wrong certs and one highly doubtful!
                      ~ with love from Little Nell~
                      Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ditto fruitless quests for marriage certs.

                        In an attempt to find out the first wife of my mysterious 2 x GGF, James Holden, I compiled a likely list of marriages - 27 in all - and set about sending for them 3 at a time. There are literally HUNDREDS of less likely, but possible, ones out of area.

                        I quickly realised that I wouldn't know if I got the right one or not and even the one I could "definitely" eliminate on the grounds of unlikely occupation could not be traced forward with his wife, so is a potential bigamist!

                        I then decided to try to trace the birth or baptism of his son from his first marriage - 15 likely candidates and I have only managed to eliminate 3.

                        OC

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                        • #13
                          OC

                          As you are aware I cannot find 2nd marriage of my gt grandmother Emma. It's not in the GRO indexes. I've checked about half the parish churches she might have married in, though of course she may have married at the register office. Oh, and she might have married in Greenwich instead of Islington - or indeed another area of London altogether.

                          Then there are the bizarre absences - my Mum's father and several of his siblings went to their local village school. A very kind parish clerk checked the school registers and found all of them except one brother - the one chap who I know least about, of course. I know about all the other siblings' marriages and children, but this chap just fades out of the picture. I know he lived to early adulthood as my Mum has photos of him - but I can't see why he didn't appear to go to school at all!!
                          ~ with love from Little Nell~
                          Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Look if it was that easy - we'd all have our trees completed in next to no time -then what would we do????


                            The fun is in the chase or research and finding snippets of info you didn't know - like me this extra child that wasn't registered and now as they moved about - are there any more????



                            Researching Irish families: FARMER, McBRIDE McQUADE, McQUAID, KIRK, SANDS/SANAHAN (Cork), BARR,

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              JBee

                              FUN? FUN?

                              It took us 25 years to find the death cert of my beastly 2 x GGF, and another 2 years after that to find his second marriage cert.

                              Both events were nestling coyly in the local Register Office and had never made it to the GRO.

                              OC

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                                JBee

                                FUN? FUN?

                                It took us 25 years to find the death cert of my beastly 2 x GGF, and another 2 years after that to find his second marriage cert.

                                Both events were nestling coyly in the local Register Office and had never made it to the GRO.

                                OC
                                OC, that sounds interesting.

                                How did you prize the certificates out of the local Register Office?

                                *Taking notes in case I have to do the same*
                                Elizabeth
                                Research Interests:
                                England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                                Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I wonder if one of my marriage entries is lurking in a Lancashire register office.

                                  As I don't know where they might have married and have a 10 year span and a very common name - how long 25 years + 2 - I'll be long gone by then!! lol

                                  And me - how did you get access

                                  I would just love to be able to peruse the registers at my leisure!!!!



                                  Researching Irish families: FARMER, McBRIDE McQUADE, McQUAID, KIRK, SANDS/SANAHAN (Cork), BARR,

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Now when Mum and I went to Gorleston Register Office on holiday some years ago my Mum booked an appointment and they led you into a room with a pile or books which was their index. My Mum then smiled sweetly at the lady and she left us alone only coming back into see if we had found anything. She then would show my Mum the details and ask her if she wanted to buy the certificate.
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                                    • #19
                                      You USED to be able to look at the registers yourself, once you had struck up a rapport with the Registrar. Sadly that all stopped abruptly when someone pinched one - oh how I would like to get my hands round their neck!

                                      I found the marriage on Lancsbmd - I already knew her maiden name and I screamed with shock when I saw it.

                                      The death cert was a bit of dogged persistance, continually emailing and phoning to find out if this one or that one was "my" cert. The Registrar got so fed up with me, she asked if I had considered if he had died out of area - no, I hadn't - and bless her, she tracked it down for me. I would never have found it in a million years myself.

                                      It is a well-known "secret" that many events did not get to the GRO from Lancashire offices although the GRO flatly deny this and did not answer my letter when I sent them copies of the two missing certs!

                                      I now have six certs from Lancashire offices which do not appear in the GRO index. Possibly they are wildly mistranscribed, which is just as useless as not being there at all.

                                      OC

                                      OC

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