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RAF / Army Officer in WW1

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  • RAF / Army Officer in WW1

    Just found out that my grandfather's cousin Lionel Evelyn Graham JUDGE was a 2nd Lieutenant in the RAF in WW1 and before that a 2nd Lieutenant in the "L N Lancs Regt" . I guess I must have been too mean to pay up for his medal card from TNA so I never saw it until it appeared on ancestry. And it's one of those with an address on the back, too! So... I'm sure I've heard that there is lots more info about officers than there is about those in the ranks - where should I start looking for more info about his career?
    KiteRunner

    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

  • #2
    Well step one would be The Catalogue on TNA site to find his Army Long Papers - I think that's what they are called (Cat ref WO 339).......But having entered "Judge", there are none with the right initials :(

    I have to go and do dau's hair now........! Gggrrrr! lol

    Comment


    • #3
      Maybe his Army record ended up with the RAF?

      Anyway.....RAF - Contacts for the RAF records. I don't know if they have changed the addresses, as I'm sure I wrote here:

      To obtain service records you will need to write to:

      PMA(Sec)1b(RAF)
      Room 5, Building 248A,
      RAF Personnel Management Agency
      Raf Innsworth
      Gloucester GL3 1EZ



      for my dad's record. You would need to check which is the more recent. (Costs £30) Anyway, if he left the RAF (or the army) before 1922 then his records should all be at Kew, so you can forget the above. (I don't know if you can access anything on the RAF stuff online via TNA catalogues)

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks, Merry. I've found a couple of references to him in the London Gazette, so I think I'll try the Times Digital Archive next as the search sometimes works better on there. If there are two with his full name there are probably some others with middle initials or something.
        KiteRunner

        Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
        (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

        Comment


        • #5
          I've found his entry now on TNA "The Catalogue":

          WO 374/38719 JUDGE, Lieut L E G 1915-1923

          You can order the whole document online if you wish. Click the entry and then chick the "Request This" in the top right hand corner. Then just follow the instructions. They send you an email with the estimated costs (varies a lot depending on the amount of stuff in the record.). You can agree to accept the estimate or not.....!

          Looks like he was promoted to Lieutenant!

          Comment


          • #6
            Ooh, brilliant, Merry! Well done. There are so many versions of his name to search for with all those initials, and then most search engines also come up with loads of judges called Lionel... so that is going to be very useful indeed. Lots and lots of thanks.
            KiteRunner

            Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
            (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by KiteRunner View Post
              most search engines also come up with loads of judges called Lionel...

              lolol!! I was just thinking that!

              Comment


              • #8
                I just realised his isn't a WO 339 which is why I didn't find it the first time.

                This is what TNA say about WO 374:

                The National Archives has various other record series that contain material on officers who served in the First World War. WO 374, for example, houses the files (arranged alphabetically) of officers of the Territorial Force and other 'miscellaneous' officers (such as those who came out of retirement).

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                • #9
                  Documents ordered

                  *twiddles thumbs*
                  KiteRunner

                  Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                  (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Merry Monty Montgomery View Post
                    I just realised his isn't a WO 339 which is why I didn't find it the first time.

                    I'm still marvelling at how you found it at all! I nearly had to call for help in navigating the catalogue even with the entry reference you gave me!
                    KiteRunner

                    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I used a very complicated method ........

                      I typed

                      L E G

                      in the search box!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The RAF was only formed in April 1918, so your relative would have been one of founder members of the service.

                        Alan

                        Whoever said "seek and ye shall find" was NOT a genealogist

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Oh yes, that sounds right, because he was still in the N Lancs Regt when he got his Military Cross at the beginning of 1918. I'm sure I've been reading somewhere recently about RAF records, but now I'll have to look back through all my magazines to find it...
                          KiteRunner

                          Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                          (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Having found more London Gazette entries, it turns out he was seconded for service with the RAF 24th Sept 1918, and "relinquished his commission on ceasing to be employed (by the RAF)" 24th Aug 1919, as a 2nd Lieutenant, but then in the issue dated 20th Jan 1920 he became a (full) Lieutenant in the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment 1st Feb 1919! I suppose it was so he would get the back pay etc. but it is confusing. And he was only born in 1897, so he was what, only 21 when the war ended. He was obviously a career soldier (not surprising since all his family were) as he transferred to the Infantry as a Lieutenant in 1921.
                            KiteRunner

                            Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                            (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If he was a career soldier and was still in the services after 1922 then in theory you shouldn't have been able to find his service record on TNA catalogue. I can only think because his service was a bit "chop and change" at the end of WW1, his record became split. (unlike my grandfather whose service they called "continuous" though his actual service dates were 1915-1918 and 1940-1945, which I wouldn't call continuous!! lol)

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Well, I haven't found any mention of him after 1921 yet so I'm not sure. But hopefully those papers will tell me more - though you only get a certain number of pages for your money, so it may be cut off before the end!
                                KiteRunner

                                Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by KiteRunner View Post
                                  Well, I haven't found any mention of him after 1921 yet so I'm not sure. But hopefully those papers will tell me more - though you only get a certain number of pages for your money, so it may be cut off before the end!
                                  Oooh, no....you can have all of it! The last one I ordered was about 60 pages!!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Oh dear, maybe I ordered the wrong thing then - it says,

                                    "SERVICE TYPE: Gold service (24 hours)

                                    SERVICE DESCRIPTION: Includes up to ten images from the same document delivered by email within 24 hours"
                                    KiteRunner

                                    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      24 hours!!! There's "gold service" for you!

                                      I can't remember what it was called now, offhand, but the service I used was to order the whole doc and they send you an estimate of the cost within ten days. I've done this about four or five times and each time the estimate has arrived in about a week (email) and when I've said "yes" (all but one of them), the documents have arrived through the post within a couple of days (all A3 if I remember correctly, but I don't remember if that was because I requested them larger?)

                                      Don't remember much actually, do I??

                                      I would be very interested to know which bits they decide to send you.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I think there was a "platinum service" available which would have been quicker but cost twice as much. I'll let you know when it arrives!
                                        KiteRunner

                                        Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                        (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                                        Comment

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