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  • Help to Solve Mystery

    Please help,

    Can church marriage records differ from actual marriage certificates.

    I have been in contact with someone who has the same relys as me. She has the actual Marriage certificate and I have viewed the church records at the archives - She has witnesses as a Benjamin and Esther Morris however I have witness Benjamin and Esther Taylor.

    On a second marriage for the same man I have his dad as a Painter and she has his dad as a Watchmaker.

    All other info is the same ie dates and places.

    My question is a I cant remember when I got married, do you sign a church record and a marriage cert and can they be different.

    Sara
    Sara

    Researching Clarke, Malpass, Flavell, Bate in Gornal / Sedgley and Hingley, Herring, Wainwright, Parker Stourbridge / Kingswinford


  • #2
    I didn't marry in church so can't answer that bit. However I got a marriage cert from a local Registrar which seems to be a photocopy with the original handwriting. Some time later a new found cousin gave me another copy of the same marriage. This was issued on the day of the marriage in 1878.

    The info on both is the same except that on the one issued in 2006 the witnesses are John Lee and Elizabeth Barber. On the 1878 issued one the witnesses are John Lee and Emily Shaw. I assumed it was a mistake by the Vicar.

    The 1878 one says "The above is a true copy of the Marriage Register of the Christ Church aforesaid extracted (the date in long hand) by me John Crawford Vicar"

    The 2006 one has the bit about being a true copy of an entry in the certified copy of a Register of Marriages.

    I would imagine that the Vicar had to write the details out several times ie. in the Church records, in something to be sent to the registrar and on a certificate to be given to the newlyweds. (or did they have carbon then?) and that's where mistakes could occur.

    Jackie
    Jackie

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    • #3
      When you get married, the registrar/vicar fills in the register, which you sign. He then makes a copy and gives it to you. Later, another copy of all the marriages is made and sent to the GRO. This is the one they use when you ask for a copy from them.

      So there is room for error when any of the copies are made, or indeed when the vicar fills in the original. But the church register will be the "master" copy from which all the other copies were made.
      ~ with love from Little Nell~
      Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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      • #4
        So which one would you take as correct. The one from church records at the archives, or the one obtained fairly recently from wherever
        Pam

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        • #5
          The church marriage register is the "master" copy.
          Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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          • #6
            Thanks for your replys, however I begining to think that her Cert is correct. I could never find my Taylor witness on the census, but I have found her Morris witness.

            To be honest the person whos marriage it is was illigitimate, and the fathers name was made up, so I think a few lies were being told, painter to watchmaker???
            Sara

            Researching Clarke, Malpass, Flavell, Bate in Gornal / Sedgley and Hingley, Herring, Wainwright, Parker Stourbridge / Kingswinford

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            • #7
              Sara, is there any chance that you have copied the witnesses' names out wrong from the church records? Did you get a printout or photocopy of it, or just write down what you saw?
              KiteRunner

              Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
              (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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              • #8
                Kate,

                Funny you should say that, I am begining to question myself about the witness surnames, I didnt get a printout, just wrote it down. But the watchmaker bit on the 2nd cert, I would have for certain noticed. Mom was with me, (PamDidle) and she checks everything!

                I will have to go back now and double check.

                Sara
                Sara

                Researching Clarke, Malpass, Flavell, Bate in Gornal / Sedgley and Hingley, Herring, Wainwright, Parker Stourbridge / Kingswinford

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                • #9
                  I have told this tale before many times.

                  I have three certificates for the same marriage - one from the GRO, one from the local Register Office and one a photocopy from the church register.

                  You would hardly know it was the same couple! There are so many differences between the three certificates - surnames, ages, occupations, father's names, addresses, all mixed up and transposed.

                  The GRO copy is a modern handwritten copy and whoever wrote it out couldn't read what was on the cert, obviously, and just made a guess for the addresses.

                  By all means check that you have copied it accurately, but don't be all that surprised if you are correct and there are discrepancies between the church entry and the certificate.

                  OC

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                    I have told this tale before many times.

                    I have three certificates for the same marriage - one from the GRO, one from the local Register Office and one a photocopy from the church register.

                    You would hardly know it was the same couple! T...............
                    By all means check that you have copied it accurately, but don't be all that surprised if you are correct and there are discrepancies between the church entry and the certificate.

                    OC
                    I'll back up all OC says. I bought a copy of the GRO certificate of my grandparents' marriage and wondered why nan decided to call herself Lilian as she was baptised, and always known as, Lilly. Then at Christmas my aunt died and amongst her papers I found grandparents original certificate - you've guessed it - her name was entered as and nan signed Lilly. I guess when the vicar wrote up the copy to submit at the end of the quarter he wasn't concentrating. On the other hand I haven't yet looked at the church register at the LMA - wonder if that will match either of the certificates?
                    Judith passed away in October 2018

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                    • #11
                      I have a marriage cert from 1841 that has no witnesses names on it at all!
                      Its not signed by the vicar/reverend/curate either.

                      This was from the GRO, and is a photostat of the one the registrar sent in with his returns. So presumably he was somewhat weary of writing out all the copies & just forgot to fill in all the bits.

                      I did check with the registrar (Bath & Avon) who assured me that the copy they have DOES have witnesses on it, so I do know the marriage went ahead & was legal LOL
                      Vicky

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                      • #12
                        The legal bit applies to having witnesses listening to the vows. You don't need a cert signature to be married. So if you took your vows in the presence of witnesses you are married, whether or not the certificate was filled in properly.
                        ~ with love from Little Nell~
                        Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                        • #13
                          A death, not a marriage, but a similar situation. The local death register records the surname correctly as Lydiard but the death is in the GRO index as Sydiard. So the misindexed name is repeated in FreeBMD and in Ancestry and there's no way of entering a correction. And of course with it being the initial letter that's wrong you can't do a wildcard search.
                          Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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