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Titchmarsh family again - Sorry

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  • Titchmarsh family again - Sorry

    Ok the story so far

    John Edward Leonard Herman Titchmarsh born 1852 Royston Cambs
    married Jane Anne Jordan in 1874 Northamptonshire
    In 1883 John married Eliza Phelan in Fulham - Jane was still alive and kicking and in July 1891 John was found guilty of bigamy

    Now Jane and her 3 children are missing in 1891 (4th one accounted for at sea) Herbert Edward b.1880 Northamptonshire, Victoria Adelaide b.1881 Cambrigdeshire and Harry b.1882 Cambridgeshire

    In 1901 Jane (Listed as Jennie) is living in Islington with Victoria and Harry as a Widow, and Herbert is with his wife.

    John has vanished and there is no sign of Eliza - in 1891 or 1901

    Ok, there is a family in 1891 which could be the Missing John but he is with a wife Ada b.1870, 2 sons Reginald b.1884 Royston, Cambs and John b.1890 Lairg, Devon - RG12; Piece: 128; Folio 193; Page 28.
    None of this family appear in 1901.

    My thought was that After Eliza found out her marriage was invalid, left John, he then shacked up with Ada and they had a child John in Devon. Reginald from the BMD is Reginald Harry could this be the Harry in 1901 with Jane (Jennie)

    Sorry this is so long, but if anyone has understood my thought process can I have you oppinions please
    Vikki -
    Researching Titchmarsh and Tushingham

  • #2
    Vikki

    I understand your thought processes, but opinions are no substitute for facts.
    What happened to John - did he go to prison?

    Also, the chap you found 1891 that could be him - have you tried tracing this person back to see if there were two John Titchmarshes?
    ~ with love from Little Nell~
    Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

    Comment


    • #3
      There's only one John Titchmarsh baptism on IGI which is your chap and only one in 1881, so I guess its him in 1891.
      ~ with love from Little Nell~
      Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

      Comment


      • #4
        Um, have you checked out Jane and Ada's ages and place of birth? I have a few instances of the same wife appearing to be a different person in one census, but just given a different name.
        ~ with love from Little Nell~
        Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

        Comment


        • #5
          Another thought - could Ada be Eliza? You say John was found guilty of bigamy in summer 1891, do you have details of when his crime was discovered? If Eliza thought she was married to him, wouldn't she still be with him in 1891?

          And what was he doing in Devon, for his child to be born there?
          ~ with love from Little Nell~
          Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

          Comment


          • #6
            It would be a very understanding woman to take on the illegitimate child of her bigamist husband's extra mistress.

            I wonder if, having been dumped in favour of wife no2, Jane/Jenny and her children are hidden somewhere in the workhouse, possibly under their initials.

            And have you checked to see if she's reverted to her maiden name? If husband was convicted later that summer she could have already known of his indiscretions by the census and be wiping her hands of him.
            Zoe in London

            Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

            Comment


            • #7
              in 1901 he's down as John Litchmarsh as a "visitor" to Ada

              they're living in Brighton an dthere's lots more children but exactly whose they are is anybody's guess

              45 Queens Park Road Brighton

              Ada Titchmarsh, head, M, 30, Cambridge
              John, son, 10, Plymouth Devon
              Ada G , dau, 8, Camden Town
              Ruby, dau, 5, Camden Town
              Lillie, dau, 3, Camden Town
              Alice Griffiths, visitor, single, 24, Wittycombe (?) SOmerset
              John Titchmarsh, visitor, married, 50, Corn (?) Merchant, Royston Cambs

              RG13; Piece: 923; Folio: 5; Page: 2





              any transcriptions in this post are Crown Copyright unless otherwise stated
              Zoe in London

              Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

              Comment


              • #8
                in 1891 Jane/Jenny is mistranscribed as Laws (name of family above her on census)


                6 Thornhill Road, Islington

                Jenny Titchmarsh, wife, WIDOW, 35, no occupation (crossed out) Harlestone
                Herbert, son, 11, Bassingbourn
                Victoria, daur, 10, Bassingbourn

                RG12; Piece: 153; Folio 5; Page 2




                any transcriptions in this post are Crown Copyright unless otherwise stated
                Zoe in London

                Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

                Comment


                • #9
                  don't want to worry you but the birth reg is for a Reginald Harriet Titchmarsh!!!!

                  maybe they couldn't decide if it was a boy or a girl
                  Zoe in London

                  Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by samesizedfeet View Post
                    don't want to worry you but the birth reg is for a Reginald Harriet Titchmarsh!!!!

                    maybe they couldn't decide if it was a boy or a girl
                    No need to worry, the transcription say Harriet, but the image says Reginald Harry...both Ancestry & FreeBDM. ;)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Little Nell View Post
                      Vikki

                      I understand your thought processes, but opinions are no substitute for facts.
                      What happened to John - did he go to prison?

                      Also, the chap you found 1891 that could be him - have you tried tracing this person back to see if there were two John Titchmarshes?

                      According to the old bailey online he was sentenced to 2 days!, on 22nd July 1891, As this was such a short sentence I expect he will be around somewhere.

                      I have checked all John Titchmarsh's ( I have loads in my tree, he is the only one born in Royston, Cambs around 1852
                      Vikki -
                      Researching Titchmarsh and Tushingham

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Little Nell View Post
                        Um, have you checked out Jane and Ada's ages and place of birth? I have a few instances of the same wife appearing to be a different person in one census, but just given a different name.
                        Jane was born in 1857 in Northamptonshire
                        Ada was born in 1870 Cambridgeshire

                        Deffinately 2 different people, and I doubt that Ada is Eliza as she would have only been 13 when she married John in 1883
                        Vikki -
                        Researching Titchmarsh and Tushingham

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Little Nell View Post
                          Another thought - could Ada be Eliza? You say John was found guilty of bigamy in summer 1891, do you have details of when his crime was discovered? If Eliza thought she was married to him, wouldn't she still be with him in 1891?

                          And what was he doing in Devon, for his child to be born there?
                          I have no idea why devon, I can't find a matching Titchmarsh birth in Devon in that year, another mystery to be solved
                          Vikki -
                          Researching Titchmarsh and Tushingham

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by samesizedfeet View Post
                            in 1901 he's down as John Litchmarsh as a "visitor" to Ada

                            they're living in Brighton an dthere's lots more children but exactly whose they are is anybody's guess

                            45 Queens Park Road Brighton

                            Ada Titchmarsh, head, M, 30, Cambridge
                            John, son, 10, Plymouth Devon
                            Ada G , dau, 8, Camden Town
                            Ruby, dau, 5, Camden Town
                            Lillie, dau, 3, Camden Town
                            Alice Griffiths, visitor, single, 24, Wittycombe (?) SOmerset
                            John Titchmarsh, visitor, married, 50, Corn (?) Merchant, Royston Cambs

                            RG13; Piece: 923; Folio: 5; Page: 2


                            any transcriptions in this post are Crown Copyright unless otherwise stated
                            Ooo Zoe thank you, and John was a corn merchant in 1881, off to investigate
                            Vikki -
                            Researching Titchmarsh and Tushingham

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by samesizedfeet View Post
                              in 1891 Jane/Jenny is mistranscribed as Laws (name of family above her on census)


                              6 Thornhill Road, Islington

                              Jenny Titchmarsh, wife, WIDOW, 35, no occupation (crossed out) Harlestone
                              Herbert, son, 11, Bassingbourn
                              Victoria, daur, 10, Bassingbourn

                              RG12; Piece: 153; Folio 5; Page 2




                              any transcriptions in this post are Crown Copyright unless otherwise stated
                              Explains why I couldn't find them - Doh, Thanks again

                              Just off on the school run - be back in a mo
                              Vikki -
                              Researching Titchmarsh and Tushingham

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Thanks for your help.

                                I have had a quick dig about with the 1901 family - Ada and Co, and it seems that none of those children were registered as Titchmarsh, So who are they?

                                could it be that John and Ada never married (certainly no match in the index), so when they were registered it was in Ada's name but so the neighbours didn't talk they used the name Titchmarsh?????

                                This family will be the death of me
                                Vikki -
                                Researching Titchmarsh and Tushingham

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by vikki brace View Post
                                  Thanks for your help.

                                  I have had a quick dig about with the 1901 family - Ada and Co, and it seems that none of those children were registered as Titchmarsh, So who are they?

                                  could it be that John and Ada never married (certainly no match in the index), so when they were registered it was in Ada's name but so the neighbours didn't talk they used the name Titchmarsh?????

                                  This family will be the death of me
                                  A geography lesson needed here......

                                  Camden Town...is that Pancras?

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    In a word, Yes.
                                    Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Thank you Uncle John!

                                      In that case the only name on FreeBDM that I can find with births that match all the children, is Watson:

                                      John Watson Jun Qtr 1891
                                      Ada Watson Mar Qtr 1893
                                      Ruby Watson Jun Qtr 1896 and
                                      Lily Watson Jun Qtr 1897

                                      Trouble is that I can't find Ada Watson b. c 1850 in Cambridge.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Sorry - had guests.

                                        Thanks Lyn for looking, I had the same idea, just hadn't got that far yet.

                                        I thought John b.1890 +/-1 was born in Devon though...Hmmmm

                                        I have been looking for the death of John Sr so far no luck with Titchmarsh but there is every likelyhood it has been mis-spelt.
                                        I have a spreadsheet of all Titchmarsh BMD's from 1837 through to 1983,
                                        Vikki -
                                        Researching Titchmarsh and Tushingham

                                        Comment

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