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Is there information for incomes in the past?

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  • Is there information for incomes in the past?

    I am transcribing my grandfather's three diaries from the 1930s.

    I would like to know where I could find statistics for pay levels then. He gives the costs of various things, and his retirement pay (although he was working at the Air Ministry he had retired from the Royal Navy through ill health).
    Elizabeth
    Research Interests:
    England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
    Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

  • #2
    Current Value of Old Money

    Might be something useful on these pages.
    Caroline
    Caroline's Family History Pages
    Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks, Caroline. A very interesting site.

      My grandfather gives some of his expenses in his diary, but I'd love to know what his mortgage was (which he mentions).
      Elizabeth
      Research Interests:
      England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
      Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

      Comment


      • #4
        One of the snags about "value of money" statistics is the way prices move in relationship to each other.

        When I was about eleven:

        Bus fare 4d
        Paperback 2s 6d
        Whiskey 30s

        Today
        Bus fare £2
        Paperback £7
        Whiskey £20???
        Phoenix - with charred feathers
        Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm not really interested in a comparison with today. Rather, I want to understand how comfortably off he was.

          My grandfather had his own house, and three daughters. They had holidays every year and went regularly to the cinema and took the children to the theatre (pantomime). My mother went to boarding school in 1931, but it was subsidised (Royal Naval School in Twickenham for daughters of naval officers). They had their own house, a lovely house, brand new in 1926 but I suspect that my grandmother's grandmother subsidised the purchase (she was proprietor of a large shop in Guildford High Street). In 1933 after she died my grandmother inherited some money, and they were able to live more comfortably and buy a car.

          However, I don't think he was well off in his own right.
          Elizabeth
          Research Interests:
          England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
          Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

          Comment


          • #6
            Anybody owning their own house in the 1930's would have been reasonably well off, as most people at this time rented property.

            The Boarding School aspect is trickier because as you say, children of naval officers would have been helped financially. During the second World War it was not only navy officers who benefited from boarding education of their children. Some of the lower ranks such as Chief Petty Officers also benefited from this. Most people went regularly to the cinema and pantomimes, so again is not a very good judge of how well off a family was. Holidays were also taken by many people as train/bus travel was cheap and so were able to get to the seaside very easily hence the popularity of places like Blackpool and the Devon coast so again holidays are not something to judge the wealth of a family. By contrast few people had cars, so car owning and house owning would be your better criteria for how well off a person was.

            Janet
            Last edited by Janet; 22-04-08, 16:15.

            Comment


            • #7
              My grandfather lived a comfortable middle class existence, although his job was a very humble one - some trumped up clerical job for Libbys Tinned Fruits.

              He owned his own house and had a car in the 1920s. His two children went to a private day school. He had a television in the 1930s and the family went on annual holidays, staying in hotels. All this prewar.

              He was bankrolled by his father, who also kept various other members of the extended family. Great grandfather was a self made man who was on the board of directors for the Co-op in Manchester. His earnings could never have been huge, but he was a shrewd investor, bought several small houses. He definitely never inherited any money as the previous generations on both sides were dirt poor.

              I have an advertisement for the house my grandparents bought, brand new, in Coulsdon, Surrey in the late 1920s. Detached, 3 bed, 3 receptions and a garage - price 600gns. I am sure the deposit, if not the whole amount, was paid by my great grandfather.

              In those days, you could only get a mortgage for 90% maximum, and based oonly on 2-2.5 of your annual salary without bonuses, so the mortgage repayments would have been low and certainly not more than a quarter of your income.

              Curious little tale here - grandad retired in the 1960s and they sold the house for £52K and moved down to Devon. Grandad promptly died, and grandma returned to Coulsdon and re-bought their house, paying nearly £100k for it!!!

              OC

              Comment


              • #8
                Interesting, OC. Amazing Grandma went back to old house!

                My grandparents' house was 10 minutes walk from Guildford town centre - a beautiful spot, just like being in the countryside. It had a huge garden at the bottom of a quarry. They moved in new in 1926, and I'm pretty sure grandma (see my avatar) funded it. Before they were living in rooms. It had a lounge, dining room, kitchen (which you could eat in), scullery, very large downstairs cloakroom and loo, a large hall with a fire one end and table and seats, 5 bedrooms upstairs, a bathroom and separate loo. It also had a garage and various outbuildings for coal and storage etc. The house is still there and we went up there in 2000 when my daughter had her graduation ceremony at Guildford cathedral. It's now worth a small fortune.

                I'm sure my grandparents could not have moved from a rented flat into such a house without grandma putting her hands in her pocket, although my grandfather did have a good job at the Air Ministry involved in the design of aircraft.
                Elizabeth
                Research Interests:
                England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Not sure why Phoenix knew the price of whisky when she was at school???

                  Retirement info is probably kept somewhere in a govt dept. Metropolitan police pension records are at National Archives in Kew.
                  ~ with love from Little Nell~
                  Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    As I mentioned, my grandfather had a small amount of Retired Pay (£13 per month in 1932). However he never reached proper retirement because he died of stomach cancer in 1949, just after my sister was born, and I never knew him.

                    My mum told me so much about him, and his diaries present him in such a lovely light, that I'm trying to learn as much about him as possible.


                    Elizabeth
                    Research Interests:
                    England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                    Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Well, he was better off than my maternal grandfather! He was unemployed throughout the 1930s depression. Partly I think he wasn't much good at handling money or deali ng with people, but partly it was circumstances. He did any job he could get - lorry driving, shoe repairs, chauffeuring, blacksmithing, etc. My Mum remembers getting up from meals still hungry, and having to share a winter coat with her sister.

                      My paternal grandfather ran a picture framer's shop in Stoke Newington, but the house was repossessed after he died to pay off the mortgage arrears.

                      They would be amazed at how I live in a detached house with central heating and 3 loos!
                      ~ with love from Little Nell~
                      Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        but to reply to your specific query

                        I am sure there must be sites that have information about the state of Britain in the 30s with details about home ownership etc. I can't remember what its called but I'm sure there's a blinking great book filled with statistics about church going, average age at marriage, death rates etc. that is produced regularly.
                        ~ with love from Little Nell~
                        Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Not exactly what you were looking for = but this is an academic research project into working class home ownership in 1930s and this page has info about how mortgage repayments were cheaper than rent:

                          THE WORKING-CLASS OWNER-OCCUPIED HOUSE OF THE 1930s
                          ~ with love from Little Nell~
                          Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Little Nell,

                            Thanks for your replies. The article is fascinating and I will read it in full when I am dressed.

                            I think reading my grandfather's diaries has made me think more about the family's personal circumstances. They are for 1931, 1932 and 1933. In 1931 he was certainly far more preoccupied with his finances than in 1933. However, Grandma (my grandmother's) died in 1932 aged 93, leaving my grandmother as main beneficiary to her will as the other grandchild was left with very little after leaving his wife for another woman!

                            In addition, I think his job at the Air Ministry was a fairly safe one (much safer than manufacturing).

                            BTW, it was interesting to see how much time he had off sick in 1932 - 6 weeks because he had an abscess in his jaw and had to have a huge amount of dental treatment. It certainly got him down. He also mentions my grandmother's dental problems. By the time I was born, my grandmother had had all her teeth extracted, like many people of her age. It must have been a blessed relief after all the pain they seem to have had!
                            Elizabeth
                            Research Interests:
                            England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                            Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Little Nell,

                              Many thanks again.

                              This Chapter gives the average wage in 1931 as £3 5s per week, or £169 per annum.

                              In 1931 Grandpa's retired pay (RN) was £156 and his annual salary was £372, so he was doing OK. He had been in the Navy since he was he was 16 as an Engineer (Lieutenant Comamander I think) but he had to leave active service as he was very ill with malaria for quite a while.
                              Elizabeth
                              Research Interests:
                              England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                              Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                How fortunate his diaries survived!
                                ~ with love from Little Nell~
                                Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Little Nell, his diaries are a gem. Full of family details, about the children's schooling, going to Brownies, family holidays, and his agonies about sending my mum to boarding school, which she found very tough.

                                  He talks about the films he saw, his love for my grandmother, and recounts every year his planting of the garden. It also covers the period of when my great-great-grandmother died (1932) and then my great-grandmother (1933). Very sad entries, but also humour when my great-great-grandmother was very ill and was convinced that she was young again and pregnant!

                                  Whenever it was his wedding anniversary or my grandmother's birthday he mentions how happy he was with her and how he never had any regrets about marrying her. I also have her love letters to him before they married (which was in 1915). I think he was quite a softy.
                                  Elizabeth
                                  Research Interests:
                                  England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                                  Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    A family historian's dream, then.

                                    I have my maternal grandfather's letters to my grandmother when they were courting, but they don't have a lot of facts and are vague ie "my cousin said this" or "I had a postcard from my sister" (which one - he had 4!)

                                    I also read a letter from my paternal grandfather Jeuel to my grandmother, during WW1 when he was at training camp. I hope my Mum still has it. It mentioned him showing a photo of his family and someone remarking that my uncle Sam had beautiful blue eyes to which my grandfather wrote "like his mother" so I know what colour her eyes were.
                                    ~ with love from Little Nell~
                                    Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Nell, Isn't it great that some people are hoarders? My gran was, and this is why I have these things now, as my mum kept them too.

                                      It is an extra bonus as I never knew my grandfather.

                                      I bet you treasure the items that your family has saved, and little details like eye colour are a treat.
                                      Elizabeth
                                      Research Interests:
                                      England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                                      Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I think the eye letter is still at my Mum's house somewhere. But yes, of course I do. I have a cloth with lace edging done by my gt grandmother and a china tea set my grandmother played with as a little girl.
                                        ~ with love from Little Nell~
                                        Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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