My ancestors are teasing me!

[Olde Crone Holden]

I have recently discovered the fantastic on-line Tithe Maps, hosted by Cheshire County Records Office.

I have never been able to find the baptism of my 2 x GGF, Thomas Green, despite his assertion that he was born in Gawsworth. His father certainly was, and so were all the previous generations.

I therefore do not know who Thomas Green's mother was - she was dead before 1841.No marriage found. His father, John Green, was a farmer - all the Greens were farmers, so I was not surprised to find them listed on the Tithe Maps.

The Tithe Maps were compiled between 1836 and 1851, so I reasoned that if his father was there in 1836 (the year Thomas was born) then I needn't look anywhere else for his baptism.

I knew the family was there in 1841 onwards,(from census) so the critical window is 1836-41. I emailed Cheshire RO last week to see if they could tell me EXACTLY what year this map was compiled - they can't! The maps were compiled piece-meal over a 15 year period.

They are laughing at me, I know they are.

OC

[Little Nell]

Of course they are OC. Now take your tablets, there's a dear.

[JDGen]

Hi OC,

The only thing that I can think of to narrow down the date is to find someone from the tithe maps who appears on the 1841 census but not on the 1851 and then find a death registration (assuming that the maps were compiled after the census). It might help you to narrow down the "window". One of the occupants at Gawsworth is given as "Representatives of the late Thomas Harrop" - so if you could find his death it would give a clue. It's a bit hit and miss as age at death isn't given so an unusual name would be good!

One of my ancestors died in Antrobus in 1843 and left his estate to his nephew. On the tithe maps the nephew is listed so I know that it was compiled after 1843.

Hope this helps

Jean

[JDGen]

Had another think, as Exors were mentioned there must be a will.

Cheshire wills has Thomas Harrop of Gawsworth, farmer and victualler probate 1848. CheshireBMD has Thomas Harrop aged 56 died 1847 Gawsworth. So I would assume that the maps were compiled possibly before the will was fully executed and after 1847.

Hope this helps,

Jean

[Olde Crone Holden]

Jean

No, it doesn't! I want the maps to be compiled between 1836 and 1841, lol!

As they were compiled piecemeal, it is possible that some were compiled before 1841.

I also noticed duplicate listings for another member of the family - same fields, listed twice, which suggests two different dates. Whether this is an attempt to update information (maybe someone died?) or just over-efficiency, I can't tell.

John Green died in 1856, so that's no help either.

It's an ongoing puzzle. The Greens were a very godly family and pillars of the parish church. Why John failed to marry there, or baptise his children there, I cannot imagine. I have looked out of area, but with a name like John Green, it's an impossible search.

OC

[JDGen]

Sorry, I can't influence when the maps were compiled!

Jean

[Olde Crone Holden]

*Huffs and puffs but eventually concedes that it is not Jean's fault, lol*

OC

[Uncle John]

They are laughing at me, I know they are.

Be grateful for small mercies and your large band of helpers flagging every possible Holden sighting. :D:D

[Harrys mum]

Uncle John....................I was looking up something here in Australia the other day for me. I stumbled upon a stack of Holdens and thought..................I'd better let OC know.......then realised how stupid I was. There must be 50,000 Holdens in OZ (and not the cars)

[Olde Crone Holden]

Libby

LOL! At least the Ozzie Holdens don't all claim to be descendants of Justinian Holden!

OC

[Peppie]

So who is the L. Holden whose name is on the begining of alot of Microfilms he LDS has got? 1911 census for Cavan Ireland is the latedt one I've seen.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Peppie

Oh, don't mention the Irish Holdens, if you don't mind!

Several historians have said that the Irish Holdens have no connection with the Lancashire Holdens.

But I found a will in the 1300s, which mentions a Holden son, from the Manor of Holden in Lancs, and his estates in "the Lands of Erse".

As the same historians are very vague about the origins of the Irish Holdens, I wonder how they can be SO sure they have no connection to the old family, but there you go.

OC