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  • Apprenticeships

    I recently found my first apprenticeship, which is something I don't know a lot about.

    The boy, William Poole, was apprenticed in November 1812, but if he's the person I think he is, he was born in March 1802. Would it be usual for a boy to be apprenticed as young as 10?

    I found the documents at the Leicester Records Office. If I remember rightly they were indexed in the Poor Law section. Would all apprenticeships be indexed there, or does that mean the family were poor? They're not listed as paupers anywhere else.

    These are the documents I found (I didn't find the actual indenture):

    1. (original spelling )
    Leicester Dec the 27 1812
    This is to sertify to wome it may consarn that Whilam Poole aprentis to Thomas Newcomb frame work nitter Lester for seven years as served 6 weeks of Is time.
    Whilam Poole was bound November the 11 1812.
    Thomas Newcomb
    Thomas Newton


    What would the purpose of this document be? I oroginally thought he'd only served 6 weeks and then transferred to another master, but documents 2 and 3 suggest that he continued with the same master.

    2.
    I beg to inform you Wm Pool son of Richd Pool of this place was bound apprentice to Thos Newcomb FWK on the 11th November 1812 and the indenture is placed in my hand.
    Wm Cooke
    Leicester, 18 Jan 1813.


    Anyone know what the purpose of this document was, and who Wm Cooke would be? He's not a relation as far as I know.

    3.
    Leicester 2nd March 1813.
    Mr. John Blackshaw has paid to Richard Poole Two Guineas (in my presence) towards clothing his son William Poole.
    Wm Cooke


    Would this be normal for an apprentice, or does it suggest that the family were on parish relief? Who would John Blackshaw be?

    William's father Richard was a wool sorter, and if I've identified him correctly, he was in the Royal Artillery, stationed in Kent, from about 1795 to 1801-2, when he returned to Leicester.
    Last edited by Mary from Italy; 12-04-08, 16:04.

  • #2
    Mary

    Everything points to this being a Poor Law Apprenticeship, except the length of the apprenticeship - poor law apprentices were often indentured for ten or even 14 years.

    Ten years old (and younger) is nothing unusual for the time.

    The careful remarking of the six weeks already worked was because apprenticeships were taken very seriously - you could not be released until you had served every day of the agreed term. It may be that this is just a bit of officialdom - they forgot to enter the original date on the indentures and this is confirmation of the date.

    The payment of clothing allowance suggests they were on relief, yes - but I think you really need to find out who the poor law officers were at the time - Mr Blackshaw could be a distant relation, or someone otherwise moved by charitable intentions not covered under the poor law.

    OC

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    • #3
      Thanks, OC, I'll ask the Leicester Records Office who the Poor Law officers were at the time.

      Who would normally keep the original indenture document? William Cooke says "the indenture was placed in my hand". Would the deed normally be held by the Poor Law Officer in the case of a Poor Law apprenticeship?

      Comment


      • #4
        Mary

        Not sure about this, but when an apprentice serves his time he "gets his papers", that is, his indentures.

        I have never before considered whether he gets BOTH copies? Presumably someone somewhere keeps a record of the fact that his indentures are discharged.

        If it is indeed a poor law apprenticeship then I would imagine the poor law officers keep a copy, or that they formally record that the indentures have been discharged.

        If you don't get a more helpful answer in the meantime, I will ask my friend on Wednesday - I remember him telling me some tale about the problems he had, getting his indentures when his apprenticeship was finished. Not that he was under the Poor Law Guardians, lol - just for the general procedure!

        OC

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        • #5
          Ive got something similar for one of my Allfords - he appears to have been apprenticed via the workhouse as a mattress maker. I believe he was 12 at the time. I suppose Mary you are sure of his "birth" date - that it wasnt his "baptism" date and later? But I would think 10 would probably not been unusual for someone to start a job.

          Comment


          • #6
            From Cole and Postgate: The Common People

            Mr Owen, the philanthropic owner of the largest cotton mill, came south to plead the cause of the poor. He demanded an effective Factory Act, which would prohbit all labour under the age of ten years....the act was passed (1815) but fell short of his demands...labour was limited to nine years and over...

            The previous Factory Act of 1802 applied only to the special class of PAUPER APPRENTICES in cotton mills. It was largely ignored, due to increased demand for "free" child labour.

            ...........

            I have seen apprenticeships from age 7, in the 1600s and 1700s. these were more or less licensed slavery - a seven year old girl apprenticed by the poor law guardians for 14 years to be trained as a "housewife", an 8 year old boy apprenticed to be a farm servant.

            Poor law apprentices could not receive their indentures before the age of 25, unlike "free" apprentices, who could receive them at age 21.

            OC

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Heather Positive Thinker View Post
              I suppose Mary you are sure of his "birth" date
              Yes, I have both the birth and the baptism dates.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                From Cole and Postgate: The Common People
                Thanks for that information, OC - very interesting.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The Devon Records Office has an excellent description of Apprenticeships (both private and parish) and Apprenticeship Records here. I was going to copy and paste it, but I think it's a bit too long.

                  Hopefully it will answer all of your questions.

                  My 3xg-gf was bound as a parish apprentice at age 10 (in 1799) - three of his children (including my 2xg-gf) were also parish apprentices (all at age 9). In each case their apprenticeships ended when they turned twenty-one. I'm not sure when to Poor Law Unions were brought in, but prior to that I don't think there were workhouses for most (?) rural parishes. No doubt in later years that's where they would have ended up.

                  Cheers -

                  Tim
                  "If we're lucky, one day our names and dates will appear in our descendants' family trees."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I've got a seven year old...
                    1792

                    "William Martin, aged 7 years, of Hawkshead to David Kirkby of Thwaite in Coniston, gentleman, to learn husbandry until age of 21 years"

                    Seems like a long apprenticeship.
                    I've wondered about contacting the records office in Kendal to see what's in the record, but David Kirkby is mine,not William Martin, so forgot about it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Tim

                      Many rural parishes DID have a poorhouse, but the old poor law act was a much more practical, and in someways more humane act, than the Union Act in 1835(?).

                      Rural parishes almost always found something useful for their poor to do and the local poorhouse would be small and consist of mainly the elderly and infirm.

                      Even this category of people was farmed out occasionally - I have a series of settlement ordes for a distant relative. She was deserted by her husband and left with two small children. The parish tried to evict her to her parish of origin, but the Overseer found her a job looking after an "aged pauper" and the problem was solved, with a most effective use of public money.

                      OC

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                      • #12
                        I have my gt grandfather, 12 year old John Gough as apprentice tailor in 1851 to a John Parrs in Lieicester, who was a master tailor on his death cert. both his parents had died mid 1840s
                        Sylvia

                        Derbyshire :- Gough, Tomlinson, Fletcher, Shipley, Spencer, Calladine, Rogers, Kerry, Robotham
                        Leicestershire:- Gough, Cooper, Underwood, Hearn, Inglehearn
                        Staffordshire:- Robotham, Hickinbotham, Hill, Holmes

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