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Heart Disease in a 29 year old?

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  • Heart Disease in a 29 year old?

    Bit confused as to the cause of death for a g-g-auntie:

    "Catherine McGlan, married to Michael McGlan, labourer, died 15th Feb 1867, 7.30 pm, Burnside Lochee, aged 29 years, dau of James Donnelly, mason (deceased) and Bridget Donnelly, maiden surname McGowan (deceased), Cause of death: Heart Disease, 2 days, no medical attendent, informant, Andrew Donnelly, brother (signed his mark), James Kinniston, registrar, witness, at Lochee February 16th 1867."


    I'm finding it hard to work out what she died of, a 29 year old suddenly getting 'heart disease, and dying within 2 days of it, doesn't fit with my modern understanding of this term. Does anyone have a clue what this may instead have meant then?

  • #2
    I don't know, but OH's grandmother's brother died of "cardiac degeneration" (no length of time, but we might be forgiven for thinking he had been illfor a while) aged 31 in the 1920's and I know from OH's grandmother directly, that no one knew there was anything wrong with him until the day he died.

    Their father died similarly aged 37, but though he was working until his death, I don't know if he was ill for long before he actually died?

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    • #3
      "Heart Disease, 2 days, no medical attendent, informant, Andrew Donnelly, brother" - so that is just what her brother said she died of.
      KiteRunner

      Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
      (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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      • #4
        This is the thing though if it had been a sudden heart attack, of course these can and do happen in the young even today, I could understand that. But she was ill for 2 days, she didn't suddenly die by looks of it. Had she actually had a heart condition, which didn't kill suddenly but slowly and degenratively, then you'd expect a longer duration than 2 days surely wouldn't you? I must say it's rather puzzling.

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        • #5
          Surely though Kite runner, if there was any doubt as to what he said, they'd have ordered an inquest or something? I would have thought a heart death in someone so young, they would be suspicious surely?

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          • #6
            I hadn't taken in that the death wasn't certified, as it would have had to be at that date if the death had been in Eng/Wales.

            I think you need advice from others with Scots death certs.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Richard View Post
              This is the thing though if it had been a sudden heart attack, of course these can and do happen in the young even today, I could understand that. But she was ill for 2 days, she didn't suddenly die by looks of it. Had she actually had a heart condition, which didn't kill suddenly but slowly and degenratively, then you'd expect a longer duration than 2 days surely wouldn't you? I must say it's rather puzzling.
              Maybe she was ill for two days but the family didn't realise it was serious until it was too late. "Sudden" heart attacks are often preceded by a day or two of potentially unexplained pain.

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              • #8
                My uncle died within minutes of a ruptured aortic aneurism. He had been in perfect health.
                Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                • #9
                  Most people I would think, even then, could recognise someone with chronic heart disease - perhaps she often got out of breath, or turned blue, or had palpitations.

                  The death sounds more like heart FAILURE, which does not kill instantly - you feel more and more ill as the heart labours and finally gives up.

                  Post mortems would only be done in those days where foul play was suspected - and the foul play would have to be suspected by the family, or a neighbour or such. Otherwise nobody was interested, and post mortems would have been vigorously resisted by the majority of people as being against Christian beliefs.

                  OC

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                  • #10
                    But OC surely heart failure would be a much longer process than 2 days and extremelly unusual in a 29 year old?

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                    • #11
                      No Richard - we don't know how many other times since birth she had been ill for two days (or more) and recovered.

                      Diagnosis generally was poor, for any ailment, and treatment completely non-existant. What could be cured by a simple operation today, or even medication, was not available to them.

                      Rheumatic fever was also a cause of heart problems. My great great aunt had rheumatic fever as a child in the late 1800s. She was considered "delicate" but married and had a child. At the age of 42 she had a massive heart attack and the Doctor didn't give her 24 hours. She survived the 24 hours and he then said that she would be a helpless bedridden invalid for the rest of her life.

                      She stuck it out for a week, then got up - and died 50 years later at the age of 93!

                      Honestly, I would not take too much notice of a cause of death, especially one supplied by an informant! She could have died of anything really, this was just the cause suggested by the informant, based presumably on his general knowledge of her health.

                      OC

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                      • #12
                        I suppose I'm never going to know one way or another for certain then. I just more expected it to be a long duration or extremelly sudden if heart trouble, I find the 2-4 days more usual of some sort of infection etc.

                        Also looking at it I don't think she could possibly have been 29 either. Earliest record I have for her is 1858 a poor house register, she gives age as 25, then three years after on the 1861 she is down as 30 years old. That would make her around 34-37 in 1867, so Andrew her brother has obviously got her age wrong too.

                        I am suprised though to learn that if a woman of that age died suddenly without medical attendant, that the authorites were quite happy to take the word of a relative as to the cause...even back then I had, naively perhaps, thought they would have routinely carried out some other form of investigation.

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                        • #13
                          It doesn't mean she was only ill for 2 days, just that that is when people became aware of the problem. She may have just not recognised the symptoms.

                          I don't know anything about Scottish death registration legislation, but unless there was reason to think the death was suspicious, I don't see why there would be any concern over it.

                          Interestingly, my gt grandfather Thomas Matthews dropped dead in the street aged 40. There was an inquest. Cause of death was "disease of the heart and blood vessels". Not too sure what that was, but the description of his death sounded like a heart attack to me.
                          ~ with love from Little Nell~
                          Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                          • #14
                            Heart disease can be caused by lots of things and can affect the young and old.

                            Certain viral infections can attack the heart without it being known at the time.

                            Heart disease in a 29yr old doesn't sound strange to me and I suppose that back then medical science hadn't realised just how many causes of heart disease there was or what caused each of them.
                            With Experience comes Realisation

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                            • #15
                              Thing is I guess I am indulging in a lot of guesswork, if I just stick to the hard facts, in reality there is no evidence any medic ever diagnosed heart trouble in her, all I do know from this, if its correct, she was 29-37 got ill for two days and promptly died.

                              The diagnoses of 'heart disease' is, as far as I know, simply the 'guess' of her brother, certainly no disrepect intended to his memory, but he was a 25 year old carpet weaver, illiterate as he made 'his mark', so certainly not a doctor. Truth is without any medic having been consulted, in reality it could have been anything, sad as she left a young daughter, have no idea what eventually became of her.
                              Last edited by Richard; 11-04-08, 21:00.

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                              • #16
                                It may be that the illness had been on going for some time, even nowdays how many times have you heard "I thought it was indigestion" and in fact they where having a heart attack. She was a married women and so probably had to keep working until she no longer could.

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                                • #17
                                  I had a 21 year old uncle who died suddenly of heart disease in 1925 (in his sleep) but there was an inquest which showed he had something wrong with the wall of his heart which hadn't been previously detected.
                                  Jenny

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                                  • #18
                                    Gabby Logan's brother Daniel Yorath died aged 15 of a heart condition called hypertrophic cardiomyopathy - no symptoms, he was just playing football with his father in the garden when he collapsed and died.


                                    from Wikipedia:
                                    Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, or HCM, is a disease of the myocardium (the muscle of the heart) in which a portion of the myocardium is hypertrophied (thickened) without any obvious cause.[1][2][3][4][5][6] Though perhaps most famous as a leading cause of sudden cardiac death in young athletes [7] HCM's more important significance is as a cause of sudden unexpected cardiac death in any age group and as a cause of disabling cardiac symptoms.
                                    ~ with love from Little Nell~
                                    Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                                    • #19
                                      James, yes I'm sure she would have still been working, I have her workhouse records and she was in the workhouse 1858-1861 as her husband had in fact deserted her quite some time before her death, she was discharged as 'self supporting' in 1861 and went to live with her mother and brother, the mother had died the year before, so was just her her brother and her daughter at time of her death in 1867. I suppose it possible the brother supported all three, but somehow doubt this would have been possible.

                                      Nell thanks for the info, though in her case do not think it relevent, as she clearly was showing some decline in the days leading up to her death, my understanding of conditions like HCM and Long QT, is they rarely cause any symptoms, and the person appears quite healthy, before a sudden unexpected death.

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                                      • #20
                                        Yes, I'm just saying that dying young of heart disease isn't necessarily suspicious. We also only have brother's word that she'd been ill for 2 days. She may have felt ill for longer without telling him, or he may have just guessed 2 days because she'd been ill enough to stop working then.

                                        The trouble with certs is that they raise as many questions as they answer!
                                        ~ with love from Little Nell~
                                        Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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