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birth certificate for Joseph Smith

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  • birth certificate for Joseph Smith

    curiosity is getting the better of me and I would like to order a birth certificate for Joseph SMith to establish who his parents are. He is on 1901 census with his grandparents George William SMith b 1840 and wife Emily b1847. Living in Sutton at Hone Kent. There is also another grand child but she is the daughter of Albert James Smith who is working away. I believe her mother died during child birth as her death is registered the same time as the daughters birth.
    My suspicion is that he is an illegitimate child of ELizabeth SMith.
    Some of you may remember that I put up a thread saying I was disappointed as I was planning on meeting her grand son who is 81 . But he is not interested in his Smith side so we called the meeting off. When I was on the phone I did mention Joseph and asked if he knew who he belonged to but he denied all knowledge. I have searched for his baptism as it should be on the cityark website but so far not found it.

    Now which Joseph SMith birth certificate do I order?

  • #2
    When and where does 1901 census say he is born?
    ~ with love from Little Nell~
    Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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    • #3
      my computer is in the repair shop so I havent got my FTM on this one. Almost certain it says Dartford. If not then it would be GRavesend. I am just having another look through the Gravesend baptisms to see if I may have missed it but been over them a couple of times looking for other things and sure I would have seen it if it was there.

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      • #4
        maybe I am looking at the wrong years. The grand daughter wasnt baptised until she was 18 so I did start to look for a marriage of a Joseph SMith to see what he put for his father but its like looking for a needle in a haystack.

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        • #5
          If I've found the rght one it says born Dartford

          RG13; Piece: 708; Folio: 10; Page: 12.
          Zoe in London

          Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

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          • #6
            Found them 1901. Joseph is 3 and birthplace given as Dartford.

            This - surprisingly - is the only Joseph Smith birth in Dartford reg dist within a year of 1898

            Joseph Henry Smith 1899 Apr-May-Jun Dartford 2a p.583

            Better than my Smiths. They turn up with grandma in Cambridge, birthplace "London, Middlesex" so impossible to find. Mother then remarries, to a Mr McOnochie - and you'd be amazed how difficult they are to track after that!!!!!
            ~ with love from Little Nell~
            Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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            • #7
              there isnt a birth that tallies with this one under the Dartford district.

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              • #8
                looking back in teh earlier census these are all the children who could be old enough to have a child in 1897 (I've put their ages in 1897 in brackets)

                EMILY J 1865 (32)
                GEORGE 1868 (29)
                ALBERT J 1871 (26)
                ALICE L 1875 (22)
                ELIZABETH 1877 (20)
                ROSE MARY 1880 (17)
                SYDNEY F 1882 (15)

                How have you eliminated all the others and come up with Elizabeth as the most likely?
                Zoe in London

                Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

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                • #9
                  Joseph Henrys birth 1899 would be a year too late. That would only make him 2 and not 3 on 1901

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                  • #10
                    [QUOTE=samesizedfeet;1149812]

                    EMILY J 1865 (32)
                    GEORGE 1868 (29)
                    ALBERT J 1871 (26)
                    ALICE L 1875 (22)
                    ELIZABETH 1877 (20)
                    ROSE MARY 1880 (17)
                    SYDNEY F 1882 (15)

                    QUOTE]

                    Emily married John Byles
                    George is my ggrandfather and has 2 children Leonard and Elsie
                    Albert is the father of the other grandchild. He married twice but first wife died in child birth and 2nd marriage was to a widow in the 1920's
                    Alice married Albert Warwick
                    Elizabeth married Robert Dixon after the 1901 census
                    Rose mary died aged 3 in 1883
                    Sydney would be too young to be the father of Joseph
                    Also a Henry b 1885 and Ernest b 1888

                    Not sure how you have got aged 17 for Rose Mary.

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                    • #11
                      Rose Mary is aged 11 months on the 1881 - so born early 1880

                      I wonder if Joseph is actually a child of one of the married daughters and has been given the Smith surname mistakenly by the enumerator.

                      May be worth checking out to see if there's a birth under any of their married names
                      Zoe in London

                      Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

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                      • #12
                        I see how you got 17 for Rose mary now ..lol
                        I have 3 children for Emily and John Byles. The only one I dont have children for is Alice and Albert Warwick but they never married until 1904 so possibly she is in the running as well.
                        Didnt realise that until just now. So its a toss up between ALice and ELizabeth.

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                        • #13
                          I have taken the plunge and ordered the certificate so fingers crossed.

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                          • #14
                            Somebody has come up with another suggestin for Joseph SMith. The other grand child on 1901 is Alice and she belonged to Albert James SMith and Elizabeth Jane nee Gibson . I assume ELizabeth died during childbirth with ALice as her death is registered at the same time as Alices birth. So it is possible that Joseph was born as a Gibson but mistakenly put as Smith on the census. There is a birth registered at the correct time and place.
                            Joseph Henry W Gibson March 1898 Dartford 2a 540.

                            Looking at it logically that may be a better bet than the Joseph SMith I have just ordered..... Shall have to be patient and see.

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                            • #15
                              That Gibson birth becomes even more possible as there's no Joseph Gibson showing in 1901 to fit the birth, nor a death before 1901.

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                              • #16
                                I was just looking to see if there was a way of changing or cnacelling the certificate ordered but there site says no. So looks like I will have to wait. Sounds more logical that Joseph will be the older brother of ALice. I have started looking for a baptism of Joseph Gibson now but my server went down so will have another go

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                                • #17
                                  oh well that was the wrong Joseph SMITH. THis one belongs to George Henry Smith and Harriet Briggs. Nothing to do with my SMiths. I am thinking about the one that is registered as Joseph Gibson and asking for the chciking if his mother is ELizabeth.

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