More scribble - this time 1841, please!

[chrissiebee]

Hi Folks,

I think it's time to go back to Visionexpress...........!

Can anyone please decipher the occupation on the 1841 for William Baldwin, 35 years, Ockbrook, Derbyshire. HO107, piece 189, folio 27, page 10.

Many thanks,

Chris

[Elaine ..Spain]

??? and F.W.K. (which is Framework Knitter)

[Jessbowbag]

I'd have said somthing to do with beer! beer house?
1851- is that him,a silk hosier?

[Elaine ..Spain]

I wonder if the first bit is Beer House ??

[Anne in Carlisle]

Yes - Beer House & FWK

Anne

[chrissiebee]

Many thanks for that, everybody! I did think it said 'beer' something, but the rest was just scribble to me - doesn't help that a thick line is drawn through his occupation.

Even more of a mystery now, as I fully expected him to be some big-wig, vicar etc., having been the informant on this death cert in 1838 I received today. Even stranger is the fact that the deceased son and family lived roughly next door but one to her, and the informant, this William Baldwin, lived next door! Sad really, as the deceased was 88 years old and a widow - you would have thought one of her family would have taken time out to register the death..........

Chris

[chrissiebee]

Just found this chap on the 1851 which has him in the same place, down as a 'silk hosier'. On the 1861 he had moved to Derby itself and is down as a 'surgical elastic bandage maker'. Not that different to a stocking maker, I guess, and his venture with the Beer House must have come to a halt!

Many thanks to all,

Chris

[Shirley silver surfer]

That was interesting about a neighbour registering the death of the old lady. Where possible the informant should be the person present at the death or, failing that, a close relative.
Maybe the neighbour just happened to be near when the death occurred.

My husband had to register the death of his first mother-in-law a couple of years ago. The registrar first asked if he had been present at the death - he hadn't. Then she asked if he was a relative and pointed out that he was not a son-in-law since he had remarried after the death of his first wife. Finally she said that she would accept the registration as he was the 'person responsible for the disposal of the body'. Anyone seeing the death certificate in the future mightl not know who he was.

It brought home to me the fact that the person listed as registering the death might not be as complete a stranger to the deceased as it might appear.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Shirley

That has reminded me!

My friend's husband had terminal lung cancer, although he was still quite well in himself and was decorating the house. He didn't fancy doing the ceilings and got a lad in to do it.

My friend went outside to hang out the washing and the lad dashed out to say that her husband was dead!.

This lovely lad went with her to register the death as she wasn't sure who had to register it - her, or the person present at the death. For the life of me I can't remember now which one of them appears on the cert.

OC

[Little Nell]

"present at the death" didn't mean someone was actually at the bedside, it just meant someone who was about.

Deaths are usually registered by next of kin, but not always. It might be that the neighbour was a family friend, or just more literate/considered a man of the world because he ran a beer house too, or happened to be going to the register office on his way elsewhere.

I found my gt gt grandmother's death in childbirth was registered by a man who was an ag lab from a village a few miles away. I was very surprised about this. Could only assume that gt gt grandfather was occupied earning a living and sorting out childcare for his remaining children, and that perhaps the informant had been calling in at the town where the registrar's was on business anyway. I certainly couldn't find any link with the family. Folk on here did suggest perhaps his wife was the midwife or laid out the body or both, though I would have thought the midwife would be someone from the same village.

Or maybe the informant was living in the same village at the time and just at different place in censuses before/afterwards!

[Little Nell]

This is from Death Certificate Tutorials

"The description of the informant has varied with time. In the early days, the informant was one of the following

someone present at the death
someone in attendance
the occupier of a house
the master or keeper of an institution"

and

"Someone present at the death could simply have been the person who made a living by sitting with the dying and laying them out after death, or a close friend or neighbour and is not necessarily a relative."

[chrissiebee]

This is from Death Certificate Tutorials

"The description of the informant has varied with time. In the early days, the informant was one of the following

someone present at the death
someone in attendance
the occupier of a house
the master or keeper of an institution"

and

"Someone present at the death could simply have been the person who made a living by sitting with the dying and laying them out after death, or a close friend or neighbour and is not necessarily a relative."

Thanks, Nell - this chap was present at the death. Maybe the family had fallen out with the poor old duck, what a shame............

Chris