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  • Shocked and confused

    Thanks to the Gale newspaper trial, I've come across the death of a distant cousin who died in the terrible Thirsk railway collision on 2nd Nov 1892. He was the guard on the goods train which was hit by the express passenger train.

    However, one of the newspaper reports says that he leaves a widow and seven children. I have him as possibly married to Mary Lowe in 1874 and her possible death in 1885. They are together on the 1881 census RG11; Piece: 4853; Folio: 46; Page: 8, no sign of any children, and he is on his own as a lodger in 1891, RG12; Piece: 4014; Folio 28; Page 7.

    I'd be glad of a second opinion as to whether I've got the right George Petch or whether the newspaper report has got it wrong. His death is given in the Ipswich Journal (he was originally from Suffolk) as son of the late William Petch of Culford. No mention of a widow or children.

    Jane

  • #2
    Jane, there is a full description of the accident and the subsequent Board of Trade Enquiry in LTC Rolt's book "Red for Danger". My copy is ISBN 0-7153-8362-0.

    It makes sad reading. The signalman's child had just died after being ill for days and the company couldn't find a relief signalman. There were several errors, including the driver of the goods train who didn't go to the signalbox when the signal stayed red for ages. He would have found the signalman asleep.
    Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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    • #3
      Thank you John. I have already read a report of the enquiry and various newspapers reports. It was a truly terrible occurrence.

      Jane

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      • #4
        Sorry Jane I cant find any children, maybe the paper has got it wrong?

        Does the paper give any of the childrens names?
        Last edited by Northern Light; 29-03-08, 14:33.




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        • #5
          Thanks light - no, there is no mention of any names of wife or children. I've now found two papers that say he had a wife and children but, until I can find something official that mentions a wife and children, I still think they have got it wrong. Perhaps they spoke to someone who worked for the railway who was mixed up about who had died.

          Jane

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          • #6
            Was there an inquest? I guess it would have opened before the BoT enquiry and concluded after the signalman's trial.
            Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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            • #7
              I imagine there would have been an inquest - haven't found any details yet but still looking.

              Jane

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              • #8
                Jane, during my trawling of the 19C newspapers I have come to realise that there was a great deal of duplication - copying? - between the papers.

                The event I was interested in was a mine disater in 1838. It is reported word for word over the next two weeks in papers from London to Bristol to Dublin. Non of them acknowledge the original writer but the wording is the same every time!

                My point is that if the fact that he had a wife and children was reported in one paper it may have been repeated in others without any checking done.

                Anne

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                • #9
                  Could he have in fact had a wife and seven stepchildren?

                  My great grandfather's obituary filled a whole page of the Manchester Evening News. It states, amongst other things, that he was survived by two sisters - he wasn't, they were his sisters-in-law, who lived with him.

                  OC

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                  • #10
                    How many George Petches are there of the right age who had fathers called William, from the same area?
                    ~ with love from Little Nell~
                    Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                    • #11
                      IGI has one born Heveringham 1858 and one born 1857 in Icklingham. Suffolk, with fathers William.

                      But it is likely enough an error, carelessly repeated.
                      ~ with love from Little Nell~
                      Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                      • #12
                        Or he might have had a child/ren brought up by someone else after wife's death and the papers assumed his wife was still living when they were told he was a father.
                        ~ with love from Little Nell~
                        Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                        • #13
                          Thanks Anne - I'm fairly sure now that the report was inaccurate.

                          Also thanks OC and Nell - I can find no trace whatsoever of any children or stepchildren. There only seems to be one possible George Petch that fits and he was the son of my gx2 grandfather's sister.

                          Jane
                          Last edited by Breckland Jane; 29-03-08, 22:52.

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                          • #14
                            I think I may have worked it out. On the 1891 census he is living as a lodger with a widow and her children. I think it possible that people assumed they were married. Of course, they may have married between the 1891 census and when he died in November 1892 but, as yet, I haven't found a marriage.

                            Jane

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                            • #15
                              Jane I went down that road last night lol and I couldnt find a marriage either, I think now its just a case of an enthusiastic reporter doing what reporters do..




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                              • #16
                                Well the report did say he left a widow and children - it didn't specify it was his widow and children, did it?!

                                On the other hand, there may be a connection with this widow in some way.
                                ~ with love from Little Nell~
                                Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                                • #17
                                  1891 has a George Petch of Culford, Suffolk b 1835, living in St Mary Cray. Perhaps an uncle?
                                  ~ with love from Little Nell~
                                  Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                                  • #18
                                    Tee hee Nell, very good!

                                    I'm sure this George will turn out to be related to my George somehow, but he's not in my tree as George's mother is my relation, rather than his father.

                                    Jane

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                                    • #19
                                      There are a lot of Petches still living in north yorkshire, there is one who is a butcher in Great Ayton not so far away.

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                                      • #20
                                        Barbara,

                                        Petch seems to be a common name in Yorkshire, as it is in Suffolk, but I don't know of any connection between the two. I expect if we could go back far enough there would be one.

                                        Jane

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