The winner of WDWTYA? 27th March 2008 is......

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

deletejb

Well done Jan

[deletejb]

:D Thank you so much. Will be back in a little while.

[Tilly Mint]

Well Done Jan :D

Hope you knock some of your brick walls down !!!

Good Luck

Jacky x

[deletejb]

This might be familiar to EllinSpain who answered my post on another board.

Here goes

I'm trying to find my husbands grandfather.

Jack Newly Richie married Catherine Strathie on the 18th of July 1925 in Montreal Quebec Canada. Witness at the wedding were Henry Bilney and Alice May Bilney. The Act of marriage gave his parents names as Jack Richie and Isabella Newly. Only other piece of info said his place of birth was Royaume-Uni (United Kingdom). Jack and his wife moved to Scotland where Cathy's family lived, they had 4 children all born here in Scotland.

Jack moved to England after his wife's death where one of his daughters lived. he died on 15th January 1971 his eldest daughter registered his death he died in Bosworth Park Infirmary, Market Bosworth. This daughter at the time of Jacks death was very organised, I'm pretty sure she would have had his birth certificate when she registered his death. On his death it said he was born 23rd Nov. 1887 in Bingley Yorks. This made Jack 13 years older than Cathy, Jack was my late mother-in-laws father her twin sister said she was sure that there was only 10 years different in their age. This aunt has given me several pieces of information for the family all of which checked out,

Last summer I was able to go to the Wakefield Archives also Bradford and Bingley Library. I didn't have enough time to check every thing. I had prior to this visit phoned several places where his birth may have been registered. One very kind lady in one of the offices checked all the Bingley registered in there keeping for 1887. On my visit I checked the electoral roll for Bingley but not the surrounding areas. There were no Richies (any spelling of) there. I know there is a John Ritchie on the absentee electoral roll in Leeds. Still not fully discounted him.

I know there were Richey's on the 1881 census in Bingley the mother had remarried, there was a daughter Isabella.

I have sent for a few certificates (all wrong) contacted so many people most of who have helped me eliminate another posable Jack.

Some more info and info from family who knew Jack.

He had a sister but no one met her, nor his parents.

He had an accent -- this info came from a cousin who was young at the time, although he said it was Canadian I suspect it was Yorkshire.

Cathie and Jack built a house in Stirlingshire but house was only in Cathy's name.

His daughters said Jack was named Jack not John or James

Jack was meant have served in WW1 --

My thoughts are Jack was perhaps illegitimate and mother married or one of his parents died when he was young and remarried. Another thought is he just invented himself in 1925.

Any thoughts or pointers are very welcome, I think if I find parents I might get some where.

I have no details of Jacks military record in WW1 nor do have I details on him going to Canada. I did have a few months full access to Find my past went through all combinations of his name - nothing stood out.

I have no other information on parents other than their name from the Act of Marriage.

Jack's occupation from children's birth certificate and his death certificate.

1926 wool (d?) worker
1927 die worker
1929 die prossess worker
1971 Lorry Driver (retired)

[deletejb]

Thank you Jacky

[deletejb]

Meant to say I have started the ball rolling to see if he was a Barnardo's child. I've sent the forms to hubbies' cousin who is going to ask her Mum (Jacks eldest daughter) to sign giving me permission to enquire. She was then going to post on to Barnardo's, she hasn't yet confirmed she has done so.

[Sue from Southend]

Good Luck Jan - I hope your brick walls are not as impenetrable as mine seem to have been :D:D

[KiteRunner]

Sorry about this as it is of no help, but I'm having lots of fun looking at the results you get in the ancestry census search if you put in "Newl*y" as the first name and nothing else - a few examples from 1891 that made me laugh: "A Newly Corn Bond"; "Newly Bom Price"; "Newly Born Vary" (and no, the family's surname is not Vary).

[Uncle John]

Re the marriage witnesses, I have some Bilneys in my tree (married-ins in OH's family) but they seem to be firmly rooted in Glasgow.

[deletejb]

Thank you Sue - I think some brick walls are covered in reinforced concrete.

[deletejb]

:D KiteRunner.

Jack always made his children pronounce and spell their surname Richie not Ritchie as I would say it. I asked my French Canadian daughter-in-law how she would pronounce Richie and she said it the same way as Jack but also said that Richer was pronounced the same way.

There is so many posable variations for his name.

Jack - John James
Newly - Newley Newby
Richie - Ritchie Ritchey Richey Ritchey Reece Richer

[deletejb]

Uncle John

Bilney is a unusual name. These Bilney's married in London in 1901 Henry William Bilney and Florence May Goldfinch. They are on the 1911 Canadian census with 2 children Henry and Alice. Alice was born in Quebec.

[KiteRunner]

I spent ages last night looking for Jack and his parents, but so far no trace of any of them! Did they really exist????

[deletejb]

Hi KiteRunner

Thanks for looking. I think he just made the name up, no trace of him pre marriage and so far, other than the 4 children's birth certificate I can't find him on any other document here in Scotland the Electoral roll for area he lived in when kids were born does not exist.

In Scotland, as you know, the date and place of parents marriage is on the birth certificate. The 3 times he reregistered the births none of the marriage dates on the certificate were the date that did marry and with the exception of the twins, were all different from each other.

With a name like Richie (Richey/Ritchie) I keep checking the records in Edinburgh to see if I can find a parents marriage up here. I've checked all the Richie births from 1880 to 1891 (only 2) and starting on my next visit will start on Ritchie's a year at a time only 139 boys born in 1887.

The only other think I can think of is that perhaps a Isabella Newly (Newby) was married before she married Jack Richie so surname may be different. Any time the daughters mentioned their dads name it was always Jack Newly Richie not Jack Richie.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

I spent ages last night looking for Jack and his parents, but so far no trace of any of them! Did they really exist????

Like Kite, I spent ages yesterday having no luck!

This bit is interesting;

Only other piece of info said his place of birth was Royaume-Uni (United Kingdom).

Where did that info come from?

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Jack always made his children pronounce and spell their surname Richie not Ritchie as I would say it.

Erm.....I would pronounce Richie and Ritchie exactly the same!!

[deletejb]

Hi Merry

Thanks for looking.

Only other piece of info said his place of birth was Royaume-Uni (United Kingdom).

On Jacks death certificate it said he was born in Bingley Yorks on the 23 Nov 1887 ---- his twin daughter said she thinks the year is wrong as 1887 made him 13 years older than her mum she thought it was only 10 years. He died on the 15th Jan.1971.

Royaume-Uni is what is on his Canadian marriage certificate, should say on the Act of Marriage Certificate as no info other than their names and date on marriage cert.. Jack and Catherine Strathie met over there married and came over to Scotland where Catherine came from. It has Royaume-Uni for Catherine's as well. Catherine went to Quebec, Canada on the CASSANDRA departed from Glasgow on the 30 August 1923.

[deletejb]

Hi Merry

He pronounced it exactly as my Canadian daughter-in-law who comes from Quebec does.
Sounds like "Reecy" This makes me think he may have been in Canada for some time.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Hi Merry

Royaume-Uni is what is on his Canadian marriage certificate

Is that in type or handwriting?

[deletejb]

Is that in type or handwriting?

It's typed - on the Act of Marriage under Place of Birth but under Place of registration of birth ---- **************** I'm assuming there was no info on it as their marriage was in 1925.

I have found the church entry on the Drouin Collection but no more info there.