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1871/freebmd help please

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  • 1871/freebmd help please

    I have a few days off work so thought I would give my Maria Butler another go. I am thinking of ordering the birth certificate of possible brother Charles Butler seeing as I cant find a registration of birth for Maria Butler.
    Both are in the metropolitan district school in 1881 but do not appear on 1871. Both born woolwich Charles c 1867 and Maria c 1870.
    I was thinking of going to the library to access ancestry and check all the possible William Butler on 1861 to see which ones disappear from 1871 as she puts William Butler as her father. (think this may take a long time)
    I cant access freebmd at the moment but I understand there are 2 Charles Butler registered at Greenwich in 1867. Now my problem is that at least one of those has a father William and he isnt the one I am after as he appears on 1871 with his sister Maria but she later turns up married to a Shurety but mine marries William Pearson.
    (this is as clear as mud)
    So I now need to find the Charles Butler's mothers maiden name so that I can use it for checking to eliminate him........ If I remember rightly his mother was from Lands end.

    Charles Butler march 1868 greenwich 1d 767 and 1d 752
    Last edited by gloryer; 25-03-08, 17:23. Reason: just got access to frebmd

  • #2
    I'm not quite certain whether you're asking for the GRO index numbers to be checked, but I can see Charles BUTLER as 1868 Q1 Greenwich 1d- 752 and 767

    You can include checking info when you order which means:
    1] Any record which doesn't match your record exactly is rejected
    2] If the records don't match, you get about half your money back.

    This can be frustrating if you find out after putting, say, "Frederick" the name it's being checked against is "Freddie" - which isn't an exact match.

    Christine
    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm confused about what you are asking for?
      ~ with love from Little Nell~
      Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

      Comment


      • #4
        I've seen the two birth regs you are trying to separate.....

        Births Mar 1868
        Butler Charles Greenwich 1d 767
        Butler Charles Greenwich 1d 752

        and I've seen the marriage of the wrong Maria Butler to George Shurety

        Marriages Mar 1889
        Butler Maria Hampstead 1a 972
        SAGER Minna Rebecca H Hampstead 1a 972
        Shurety George Hampstead 1a 972
        STEINBERG Ernest James Hampstead 1a 972

        But I can't find .....

        Now my problem is that at least one of those has a father William and he isnt the one I am after as he appears on 1871 with his sister Maria but she later turns up married to a Shurety but mine marries William Pearson.
        the wrong family in 1871 that you mention above, and I can't find the wrong Maria (Shurety) after her marriage to George.

        Also, what occupation did your Maria give for her father (William Butler) when she married William Pearson??

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        • #5
          My Maria Butler married William Pearson 1890 and gives her fathers name as William Butler. Now as far as I can work out the charles Butler born Greenwich at the same time also has a father William Butler so I really need to eliminate that one. I think I have worked out that his mothers maiden name is Elizabeth Boucher as she is born Lands end. THere is one registered Penzants. I wasnt sure what to put on the order for the certificate as both Charles Butlers will have a father William if my working out process is correct!!!

          Cant access freebmd again. They did put up a notice earlier to say some of there site had gone down but they were trying to fix it.

          I was thinking that if William is the correct name for her father then he surely must be on 1861 census even though he is missing from 1871
          Last edited by gloryer; 25-03-08, 21:07. Reason: william instead of Charles

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          • #6
            Maria gives her father occupation as labourer so no clues there. Think Maria Shurety is on 1891 census living with her parents.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by gloryer View Post
              My Maria Butler married William Pearson 1890 and gives her fathers name as William Butler. Now as far as I can work out the William Butler born Greenwich at the same time also has a father William Butler so I really need to eliminate that one. I think I have worked out that his mothers maiden name is Elizabeth Boucher as she is born Lands end. THere is one registered Penzants. I wasnt sure what to put on the order for the certificate as both Charles Butlers will have a father William if my working out process is correct!!!

              Cant access freebmd again. They did put up a notice earlier to say some of there site had gone down but they were trying to fix it.

              I was thinking that if William is the correct name for her father then he surely must be on 1861 census even though he is missing from 1871
              Should the bit I've highlighted say Charles?!! (don't confuse me!!)

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              • #8
                yes sorry.
                2 x charles butler born Greenwich. One of them I think is Maria's brother but both will have father William Butler

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                • #9
                  as far as I can remember the other Charles Butlers mother is from Lands end.
                  Now I found a marriage of a WilliamBUtler andElizabeth Boucher Sep 1865 Marylebone and there is a birth registered Penzants for an Elizabth BOucher so If I were to order the certificate for Charles Butler wanting his father to be William but not his mother Elizabeth BOucher. Do you think I will get the right one!!!!!!

                  LOL

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                  • #10
                    OK, I've found Maria Shurety in 1891 and her mum is Maria (not Elizabeth!) Butler b Cornwall.

                    RG12; Piece: 1050; Folio 119; Page 7

                    When I go back to 1881 they have a son Charles Butler aged 14 (so same age as the one in the school) and aged 4 in 1871, but he was born Hampstead!!

                    So his birth should be this one:

                    Births Sep 1867
                    Butler Charles Hampstead 1a 592
                    Last edited by Merry Monty Montgomery; 25-03-08, 21:55.

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                    • #11
                      So you still have two Charles Butler registrations in the same Q one of which is probably yours!

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                      • #12
                        In passing, it's a shame your family isn't the Hampstead/Cornish lot, as I love their address in 1871:

                        Showman and Caravan, Van in Field. Special Schedule recv'd from police.

                        Great stuff!!

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                        • #13
                          I know. If that was my one my son would love it as that would explain why he juggles fire and rides a unicycle!!!
                          At first glance that family looks like the one I want but then when you see them again on the later census its only Maria with her married name that eliminates them.

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                          • #14
                            so maybe only one of those Charles Butler born Greenwich have William as a father. LOL
                            Trouble is I still am not certain if one of those will be her brother. I thought I might have found a death for their parents round about the time they were admitted to the metropolitan district school but its like looking for a needle in a haystack.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by gloryer View Post
                              I know. If that was my one my son would love it as that would explain why he juggles fire and rides a unicycle!!!
                              lol!!

                              Originally posted by gloryer View Post
                              At first glance that family looks like the one I want but then when you see them again on the later census its only Maria with her married name that eliminates them.
                              and because they are a family in 1881 whilst your Maria is at the London Metropolitan School.

                              Originally posted by gloryer View Post
                              so maybe only one of those Charles Butler born Greenwich have William as a father. LOL
                              Maybe!

                              Originally posted by gloryer View Post
                              Trouble is I still am not certain if one of those will be her brother.
                              Exactly! That's what was worrying me. Whilst many people went unregistered before 1875, not so many families registered some children but not others (though some did do that of course!). I also wonder how accurate the places of birth for the children at the school might be? It would appear that Maria's is accurate as she says the same later, but I wonder about the others.....

                              I presume the witnesses on her marriage cert are no help?

                              Did she say her father was dead when she married?

                              I expect you have read this:

                              The South Metropolitan District Schools, Sutton

                              and all this:

                              City of London - Family research - London generations

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                              • #16
                                Nothing about her father being deceased on the marriage certificate but that doesnt really mean anything as I dont even know if thats a ficticious name to cover up the fact that she may be illegitimate. Some kind soul did look at the records at LMA for me and they are both described as illegitimate and both are each others nearest relation.

                                As I say I had considered ordering the certificate for Charles birth but I may end up ordering both and wasting another £14. Or I could try to find the eligible fathers on 1861 and see if they are on 1871 but not having access to the census at home it will be a long job at the library.

                                I have had a look at some of the parish records. Had to order the film to look at in the LDS centre but nothing showed uo there either. ALso have been in touch with the Butler society with not much info from them either.

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                                • #17
                                  Some kind soul did look at the records at LMA for me and they are both described as illegitimate and both are each others nearest relation.
                                  Oh, so we should forget wanting a cert with father William in that case??

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