What is going on here?

[Olde Crone Holden]

My 2 x GGPs, [20] Edward Whittaker Garlick and [21] Ellen Riddell.

Edward always says he was born in Hollinwood, Lancs (nr Oldham), c 1822. Church regs for St Margaret Hollinwood are not on line for that date.

In 1841: George Leigh St Ancoats Manchester

William Garlick 40 Plumber Y
Elizabeth Garlick 40 Y
>> EDMUND Garlick 19 Painter Y
William 11 Y
Thomas 7 Y
Alice 2 Y

(and some lodgers who may or may not be part of the household)

1843: Edward Whittaker GARLICK m Ellen Riddle, his father William WHITTAKER, house painter.

Edward and Ellen have several children, all baptised as WHITTAKER, children of EDWARD WHITTAKER and Ellen.

Their daughter Emma (third child) is baptised Emma GALLICK Whittaker.

I have Edward and Ellen and their children forward, they are always surnamed WHITTAKER. Edward is always a house painter/sign writer.

Back to the Garlicks.

Not found 1851 but in 1861:

Elizabeth WHITTAKER W 61 b Manchester
William Whittaker son U 31 house painter b Hollinwood Lancs.

1871:
William G Whittaker U 41 painter b Hollinwood Lancs
Elizabeth Whittaker W 71 Seamstress Manchester.

I found a submitted entry for the baptism of William Garlick Whittaker on 14 March 1830, St Margaret Hollinwood Lancs, parents William Whittaker and Elizabeth. As this is exactly where I expect to find Edward being baptised, I am inclined to think it is correct (There is no source given)

I had assumed that Edward was born Whittaker, his father (a house painter) died and his mother remarried William Garlick (a plumber) and her children took his name, then dropped it after his death.

But how does that account for William GARLICK WHITTAKER, who ought to be William Whittaker Garlick, not the other way round.

Naturally, I cannot find any marriages between Elizabeth and William Whittaker OR William Garlick, except an unlikely one in Clitheroe.

Can anyone think of a scenario that would explain the above name changes - my brain has turned to idiot soup.

OC

[KiteRunner]

Have you got details of William Whittaker's death? Or could it be that William Whittaker and William Garlick are the same person going by different names? Perhaps he (William) was illegitimate and one of his parents was a Garlick and the other a Whittaker and he couldn't decide which name to go by?

[Pat Hope]

Hi OC ..........baptisms for St Margarets Hollinwood are available at Manchester Archives. I won't be going now until next week.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Kate

Yes, I did wonder if William Garlick and William Whittaker were one and the same, except that William Garlick was a plumber and William Whittaker was a painter. I haven't identified a death for William Garlick - he died between 1841 and 1861 (I cannot find any of them in 1851, not even on the wet census under either name. My feeling - and it is only that - is that he died about 47/48, due to the naming of Emma Gallick Whittaker in 1849).

Pat

If you really wouldn't mind looking - I phoned the LDS centre today but they are going to be closed for 3 weeks, which means it will be six weeks before I can get at the film.

I am looking for Edward/Edwin/Edmund, Garlick, Whittaker or something else again! Born about 1822, father (from his marriage cert) William Whittaker a house painter, mother Elizabeth unknown. (With William Garlick and my Edward in 1841).

And if you wouldn't mind confirming the sub entry for William Garlick Whittaker, bap 14 March 1830, parents William WHITTAKER and Elizabeth.

Thankyou so much - this is driving me mad.

OC

[BC]

OCH I know I'm ' thick as condensed milk ' but would like to know more about the ' wet ' 1851 Census. eg where is it and how does one access it ? My missing persons might be on it as they were on the 1841, missing from 1851, then inconsiderately died before the 1861. It might - just might - knock down a brick wall.

[Olde Crone Holden]

BC

I only know about the Lancashire wet census - there may be other areas.

My relatives lived in Manchester and large parts of the 1851 were water damaged and until now, unreadable. The MFHS has done some wonderful restoration work using ultra violet light etc and have rescued up to 90%.

You can access it, pay per view through Family History online, but you have to have really good idea where your people might be as the search parameters aren't all that good and you can waste a lot of credits.

I found one family immediately but cannot find two others who I know were in the area as they were at the same addy in 1841 and 61. Perhaps mine are in the last ten per cent which cannot be restored.

OC

[BC]

OCH

Thanks for the info: Unfortunately the wrong part of the country, but there may be other FHS's who have done similar work so this may give me a lead. Thanks again, BC

[WendyP]

Oc



1851 census

You'll find William G Whittaker bn circa 1831 Hollinwood here with mum and brother Thomas transcribed with only one 't' in surname

HO107; Piece: 2225; Folio: 343; Page: 43

[Guinevere]

I did wonder if William Garlick and William Whittaker were one and the same, except that William Garlick was a plumber and William Whittaker was a painter.

My gt grandfather served an apprenticeship as a "Painter and Plumber" so it could well be the same person.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Wendy

Thanks - I did find that in the end, sorry, after everyone had pointed up my ineffectual searching techniques on Ancestry, lol!

Guinevere

Ah! So why was he calling himself Garlick in the census, but at least one of his(?) children baptised Garlick Whittaker? Everyone still around in 1851 had dropped the surname Garlick and was using Whittaker and no one ever referred to plumbing again either.

I suppose it could mean that William Garlick and Elizabeth (Whittaker?) weren't married and the Vicar knew this. Or that William Garlick's parents werent married.

I don't think I will solve this now till I get a look at the parish registers.

OC

[samesizedfeet]

Not that it helps but i also have painter/plumbers that interchange their jobs from one census to another. I presume based on exactly which job they'd been doing that day.