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Is he or is he not!!

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  • Is he or is he not!!

    According to my G/Gdad's marr/cert. (Georeg Edmondson) he was 19 when he married on 25 Dec 1860. Then again the following April on the 1861 census he was still 19, and born in Manchester. So I am assuming he was near enough 19. This would mean he was born about 1841.
    On the marr/cert. it has as father, John Edmondson, no trade or profession. (dead?)
    To find his Mum's maiden name I went to look for his birth certificate. But there is no record of a George being born to a John in Manchester anywhere near 1841!! On the 1841 Census there is a 4 month old George son of Thomas and Mary Edmondson. I have studied this for months and made lots of assumptions but nothing possitive.
    Have I missed something, who is my GG/Gdad?

    Pipeman
    Family details I'm looking for:- Edmondson-N/Yorkshire+Salford. Wilkinson-N/Yorks, [B]O'N[/B]eill-Manchester+Ireland?, Hill-Derbyshire, Warrington-Derbyshire +N.Zealand, Makin- Salford, Partington- Prestwich

  • #2
    Does his age stay consistent through the later census?

    Does he always give Manchester as his birthplace?

    Are there any siblings that you know of?

    Are there any clues in witnesses at the marriage who could be relatives?
    Zoe in London

    Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

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    • #3
      Manchester was a terrible place for not registering births! I have this problem all the time with my Manchester relatives.

      The other possibility of course - he was illegitimate and made up a father's name but wasn't quick enough to make up a profession for him!

      The baptism of the George belonging to Thomas and Mary is on the IGI and also appears to have been registered (Lancsbmd).

      Did you get the marriage cert from the GRO? If so, might be worth checking with the local register office, to make sure the father's name is correct - I have seen more than one mistake such as this, between Manchester and the GRO.

      OC

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      • #4
        Have you found him on 1851? Other siblings the same?


        Sorry, Zoe.....you've asked that already.

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        • #5
          Have you just checked for Male Edmondson in the birth index? He might not have been given a first name. I have a raft of Glos folk who don't seem to have believed in naming their children on birth certs!
          ~ with love from Little Nell~
          Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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          • #6
            There's a male Edmondson registered Dec 1841 in Prescot vol 20 p.264
            ~ with love from Little Nell~
            Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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            • #7
              The George you found 1841 might not be Thomas' son as relationships aren't given on that census. If he was 4 months old he would have been born abt Feb 41 as 1841 census was taken 6 June. Have you tried following this family group in 1851?
              ~ with love from Little Nell~
              Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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              • #8
                From the IGI:

                George EdmUndson bp 3 March 1841 Manchester Cathedral parents Thomas EdmUndson and Mary.

                From Lancsbmd:

                George EdmUndson born Preston 1840.

                These may be two different people of course.

                OC

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                • #9
                  Can't see any George Edmondson/Edmundson born 1841 +/- 2 years in Lancashire on 1851 index. Nor can I find a likely Thomas and Mary!
                  ~ with love from Little Nell~
                  Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                  • #10
                    Thanks all for coming back to me.
                    George gave his birth place on 61 census but died before the 71 census, so I only have that to go on. He is on the 51 census, but you won't find him on the open sites. The returns were water damaged during the war and were given up as useless. But MlFHS have x-rayed them ect, and have been able to save some entries. George is there with his Mum and siblings as per 41 census, but Thomas had died in the workhouse. IF it is my George.
                    The certificates I have I got from the REg Off in Manchester. which I sent for just to see what it said about his Mum
                    I sent for a birth cert for the George born Feb 1841.
                    Gave father as Thomas, butcher , Mother as Mary ( Taylor) . All as I expected. but as I only have George's entries on his marr/cert to go on, which age wise tallies with that of Thomas as father, on the 41 census.Does any of this help.
                    Family details I'm looking for:- Edmondson-N/Yorkshire+Salford. Wilkinson-N/Yorks, [B]O'N[/B]eill-Manchester+Ireland?, Hill-Derbyshire, Warrington-Derbyshire +N.Zealand, Makin- Salford, Partington- Prestwich

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                    • #11
                      The only other thing I can think of - was it a church wedding? If so, a check on the father's name in the register might be worth while.

                      We do know that there are TWO George Edmundsons - one born in Preston and one born in Manchester. Perhaps a check in 1851 for the one born in Preston?

                      Otherwise I would cautiously assume you have the right one with parents Thomas and Mary and the John on the marriage cert was a clerical mistake/misunderstanding etc.

                      OC

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                      • #12
                        Or a misreading of Thos?
                        ~ with love from Little Nell~
                        Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                        • #13
                          Silly question but have you ordered a birth certificate of one of the siblings to see if that helps?
                          Click here to order your BMD certificates for England and Wales for only £9.25 General Register Office

                          Do you have camera? Click here to see if you can help Places of Worship

                          Jacob Sudders born in Prussia c.1775 married Alice Pidgeon in 1800 in Gorelston. Do you know where Jacob was born?

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                          • #14
                            OHC, I'm coming round to your way of thinking that on the balance of evidence it looks like the right family. Though I must confess I havn't looked at the original entries. I know that the Bishop's Transcripts can often be copied wrongly but don't the originals go to the Reg Off. from which certs are copied..
                            Nell, you may be right, asked for his father's name George said "Tom", written down- John ?
                            No Pippa I havn't thought of sending for one of George's sisiter's birth cert. Perhaps that might be my last resort, which is looking ever closer. THANKS ALL
                            Family details I'm looking for:- Edmondson-N/Yorkshire+Salford. Wilkinson-N/Yorks, [B]O'N[/B]eill-Manchester+Ireland?, Hill-Derbyshire, Warrington-Derbyshire +N.Zealand, Makin- Salford, Partington- Prestwich

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              No, the Vicar sends his returns to the local RO, who copy them out and send them to the GRO.

                              The Vicar's returns are on printed forms, so even if he does the register AND the copy at the same time, there is opportunity for error.

                              I would still want to trace the other George though, just to eliminate him!

                              OC

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                                No, the Vicar sends his returns to the local RO, who copy them out and send them to the GRO.

                                The Vicar's returns are on printed forms, so even if he does the register AND the copy at the same time, there is opportunity for error.

                                I would still want to trace the other George though, just to eliminate him!

                                OC
                                Erm.....I believe the vicar's returns went straight to the GRO.

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                                • #17
                                  Oh Merry, we have had this argument before, lol!

                                  Where does the local RO get its records from, then? Either way, there must be two lots floating around, one of which must be a copy.

                                  OC

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                                  • #18
                                    The local reg office gets it's copy from the vicar. It's the second register book you sign when you get married. The other register book goes to the county record office.

                                    So the register office only gets it's copy when book number two is complete (same for the CRO). The vicar does his quarterly copy for the GRO on special summary sheets.

                                    I'm only taking about up to 1983. Might all be different after that??

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