Anyone's eyes better than mine please?

[Charney Jo]

Hi

I find handwriting on the census returns hard to read at the best of times but this one really has stumped me (and the transcriber by the look of it!). I can see what looks like "embroideress" above and there is a good chance it starts with "New" but otherwise .... completely stumped.

Can any of you lovely people help?
Oh, and by the way, that area was very poor so I am not sure what is meant by her mother being a "land owner". The houses were small terraces and they shared a house. Not exactly affluent ...

OK, 1881 census Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 574; Folio: 75; Page: 45; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341131.

Mary Groves, b. 1856 in Walworth living at 47 Spa Road, Bermondsey


Many, many thanks.


Jo

[Little Nell]

Ye gods!

I am wondering if head of house is a laund (ie laundry) owner rather than land owner, though it does look like land. Laundry owner being a posh way of saying she took in washing!

As for Mary's occupation - I am working on it.

[Little Nell]

I think the bit written in above by a different hand is "seamstress". The rest is New (easy!) and then something that looks like conforming or uniform and then sirtriss!

[Charney Jo]

Thanks. I'm glad I am not alone there!

Laundress would probably fit the area better. I have seen pictures of the granddaughter Louise and I would definately say they had no money! Although on the 1891 census she is listed as "living on own means". Does this mean that she was rich (I doubt it but you never know) or does it mean she didn't work and her sons paid for the rent and food? I haven't looked backwards yet at this line - which I guess is where the answer lies. I'm hoping for some riches. All my family have been dockers and general labourers until now (oh and the odd ships carpenter!) That doesn't make me shallow, does it ;)

[Lyn A]

It looks like New Cussing Seamstress to me!!! LOL!! With Seamstress written above it! Perhaps it was meant to say Cushion.

[Northern Light]

Well to me it looks like "New seamstress and cant make out the other 2 words, it does look like land owner..sorry

[Olde Crone Holden]

Nin Goffering sempstress is the best I can come up with - I think Nin was a kind of veiling stuff.

Goffering would fit nicely if mum was a Laundress, but I think it is clearly Land Owner.

Land owner might be half an acre and mind your own business what I live off you nosey enumerator.

OC

[Charney Jo]

Hi OC

Blimey, still double dutch to me! Ah, just looked on the 1871 census and Jane was listed as a laundress. Elenor was a Patent Collar Turner. Any ideas before I Google?

[Northern Light]

Collars were made the same way..

Cuffs were also made by the method known as patent turning. The three cuff pieces, outside, inside and interlining, were carefully aligned. Then the patent turner placed a zinc shape on the pieces and turned in the edges with an iron. They were then stitched on the outside by a cuff stitcher. This method of patent turning by hand was later replaced by the patent turning machine.

Collars were usually made in a seperate collar room and in the old days of collar detached shirts, collar making was almost a distinct industry. Collars were made in the same way as cuffs. They could be turned out or patent turned (although turning collars was a more skilled and better paid trade than cuff turning). Detached collars were then stitched and buttonholed with the same care taken to space the stud holes precisely.

[Charney Jo]

Thanks Northern Light!

[Little Nell]

My paternal grandmother was a shirt collar maker from the age of 14 (if not earlier) until her marriage when she was 31.

[Charney Jo]

Thanks for everyone's help with this. It is very much appreciated!

[Olde Crone Holden]

CORRECTION - Ninon, not nin, is the name of the fabric I was thinking of, sorry.

Mind you, she may have SAID Ninon, the enumerator didn't appear to be all that hot with his spelling.

OC

[Christine in Herts]

It looks like New Cussing Seamstress to me!!! LOL!! With Seamstress written above it! Perhaps it was meant to say Cushion.

I must say I agree! The double-s compares with "Asst" further up the page, and with several "Leather Dressers" on the preceding page.

The original word which should be "seamstress" actually looks more like "Sertress".

And it does look like "Land owner".

Christine