Help with Cotterills please (Lancashire / Cheshire)

[KiteRunner]

Another bit of OH's tree that I haven't looked at for a long time. Now the 1841 and 1851 are available and even the "unfilmed" bits of Manchester 1851, you'd think I would be able to trace this man back, but I'm not getting anywhere at the moment. It doesn't help that he can't decide if he was born in Lancashire or Cheshire and I'm not very good on the geography of that area. Also there are many many variations of his surname (Cottrell, Cottrill, Cotterell, etc etc etc; Cot*r*l is my usual search term.)

Thomas COTTERILL married Hannah BEECH 11th Feb 1844 at the Church in the Parish of Cheadle in the County of Chester. He was 21, bachelor, Spinner, residence Edgeley, father Robert Cotterill a farmer. One of the witnesses was a James Cotterill.

I've got Hannah's family o.k. but can't get anywhere with Thomas's. This is him in 1861:
8 Hill St., New Accrington, Lancashire
Thomas Cottrell Head Mar 38 Spinner in Cotton Mill Lancashire Stockport
Annie Do Wife Do 37 do do
Eliza Do (Daughter) Un 16 Cotton Power Loom Weaver do do
Charlotte Do (Daughter) 8 Scholar do Manchester
William Do (Son) 11 Creeler(?) in Cotton Mill do do
Sarah Do (Daur) 13 Cotton Power Loom Weaver do Stockport
Thomas do (Son) 5 Scholar do Accrington
Elizabeth do (Daur) 2 Do do
Joseph Treets(?) Boarder Widr 40 Tailor Manchester

I have them in 1871 and 1881; Thomas gives his birthplace as Sale Moore, Cheshire in 1871 and as Sale Moor, Lancashire in 1881. His age goes up by 10 each time, which is something, I suppose. He died in 1891. Now, I can't find them in 1851, even searching the "unfilmed Lancashire" on FamilyHistoryOnline but I don't suppose I would learn much from that one anyway. Can anybody find him in 1841, or find his father Robert on any census? Or find Thomas's baptism? Thanks to anybody who tries!

[KiteRunner]

Hmph, I think I've found James Cotterill who was the witness at Thomas's marriage, but he doesn't help and he can't even decide if he's older or younger than Thomas - he is 29 in 1851 and then 37 in 1861. Birthplace is Sale Moor, Cheshire / Lancashire depending which census you look at, and he has a wife Alice but no rellies with them on any census. Can't find him in 1841 either.

The only other Cotterell born Sale Moor who I can find is a Samuel born about 1810 but I'm not sure if he would be their brother as he is a Master Pavior which doesn't really seem to go with Cotton Spinner. And he doesn't go in for having rellies to visit either, anyway.

[Darksecretz]

this might be him?

Thomas and james in 1841?

- Ancestry.co.uk

Class: HO107; Piece 119; Book: 3; Civil Parish: Astbury; County: Cheshire; Enumeration District: 15; Folio: 12; Page: 18; Line: 15;

[KiteRunner]

I'm not sure about that one, Julie - that Thomas is a stone mason so I doubt if he would become a cotton spinner by 1844? But thanks for looking.

[jean]

At present both Cheadle & Stockport are Cheshire but when you go there they are part of greater Manchester
have you looked at FamilySearch Record Search

in the Cheshire Collection there are a lot of Cotterills. There is a Thomas father Robert but dob 1870! if you find any of yours are connected to those baptised Wharton let me know and I will look at parish records at the library for you.

[KiteRunner]

Yes, Jean, there are a lot of Cotterills! But I doubt if there is a connection with the Wharton ones as Wharton is quite far from Sale (yes, I finally got a map out to see where all these places are!) Thanks for the offer, though. I found a will on Cheshire Wills Search in the name of Robert Cottrell, yeoman, 1831, but that is Macclesfield which isn't very near to Sale either so that is probably another red herring. Hmmm....

[samesizedfeet]

Well, I spent an hour doing every combination I could think of and can come up with nothing. Not even just searching the first names and Stockport.

It's a shame we can't work out what Creeley should be. I have a hunch it's Crewe but I've found nothing to prove that yet.

Sorry :(

Z

[KiteRunner]

Do you mean the son's occupation on that census transcription, Zoe? I put it down as "Creeler(?)" I didn't spend much time trying to work out what it was but I don't think it would help to know. Maybe supposed to be "Carder"? Or is there a Creeley somewhere that I've forgotten about?

As for Thomas and James's births / baptisms, yes, that's the problem. They do mostly say they were born at Sale Moor, but they could have been baptised anywhere in the Stockport / Manchester area really, couldn't they? And as there were so many non-conformist churches in the area, it could well have been one of those. Which is why I was hoping to find one or other of them with their father on the 1841 to try and sort them out that way. It doesn't help that they have so many variations of surname spelling!

[samesizedfeet]

aaarrrrrrgggggghhhhhh

I thought that it was his place of birth!! I even scoured streetmap for places near Sale beginning with Cre*

[KiteRunner]

Oops! I just transcribe the census entry in the same order it's written on the sheet. Sorry you've wasted time on that, Zoe! Just noticed the time. Think the Cotterills will have to wait until another day. I suppose they might possibly turn up on the BIVRI one day, or another idea I just had was A2A to see if there is any mention of Robert's farm on there, but will have to leave that till tomorrow too... Night night.