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  • Scottish marriage cert

    I have just downloaded a marriage cert from SP and in the husbands part for the details of parents it has.
    Margaret Bennett Domestic servant (subsequently married to William Crosbie locomotive worker)
    in the next column it has - Warrant of Sheriff substitute of Lanarkshire dated 27 July 1916, - this means an irregular marriage ????
    Now my brain might not be working but I thought subsequently meant - after or later

    can anyone shed some light


    Have you booked your holidays yet ?
    Why not come to Norfolk we have some great churches for you to photograph



    Shake my family tree and watch the nuts fall.


    Looking for Druce-Berkshire. Auvache , James, Hughes - London. Turp - Essex. Dipple, - Herefordshire.

    Regional Co ordinator Eastern Region

  • #2
    I would think it means that Margaret Bennett got married after her son was born?
    KiteRunner

    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

    Comment


    • #3
      Thats what I thought
      But then again the wife was same and they do not mention her father although her mother married later


      Have you booked your holidays yet ?
      Why not come to Norfolk we have some great churches for you to photograph



      Shake my family tree and watch the nuts fall.


      Looking for Druce-Berkshire. Auvache , James, Hughes - London. Turp - Essex. Dipple, - Herefordshire.

      Regional Co ordinator Eastern Region

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm a bit confused here. You couldn't post up a full transcription, could you? Or are some of the people still alive?
        KiteRunner

        Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
        (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes they are alive, :o


          Have you booked your holidays yet ?
          Why not come to Norfolk we have some great churches for you to photograph



          Shake my family tree and watch the nuts fall.


          Looking for Druce-Berkshire. Auvache , James, Hughes - London. Turp - Essex. Dipple, - Herefordshire.

          Regional Co ordinator Eastern Region

          Comment


          • #6


            does this help ??


            Have you booked your holidays yet ?
            Why not come to Norfolk we have some great churches for you to photograph



            Shake my family tree and watch the nuts fall.


            Looking for Druce-Berkshire. Auvache , James, Hughes - London. Turp - Essex. Dipple, - Herefordshire.

            Regional Co ordinator Eastern Region

            Comment


            • #7
              I would read it that the bride's father is Jackie X, domestic servant (deceased).
              Could be a fictional father but who knows?

              Jackie is a perfectly normal Scottish man's name (e.g. Jackie Stewart) even if it's a pet name.
              Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm a bit confused too, sorry.

                I don't know how legitimisations are done in Scotland, but this looks like it might possibly be a legitimisation - parents married AFTER the birth of the child.

                It's to save having "illegitimate" on the cert, although they might just as well have written that in this case!

                OC

                Comment


                • #9
                  Jackie is the mother I have copy of birth cert


                  Have you booked your holidays yet ?
                  Why not come to Norfolk we have some great churches for you to photograph



                  Shake my family tree and watch the nuts fall.


                  Looking for Druce-Berkshire. Auvache , James, Hughes - London. Turp - Essex. Dipple, - Herefordshire.

                  Regional Co ordinator Eastern Region

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tasdev00 View Post
                    Jackie is the mother I have copy of birth cert
                    In that case, perhaps they didn't make an issue of it since she was deceased. The minister and registrar would be none the wiser, since Jackie could be male or female.
                    Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tasdev00 View Post
                      I have just downloaded a marriage cert from SP and in the husbands part for the details of parents it has.
                      Margaret Bennett Domestic servant (subsequently married to William Crosbie locomotive worker)
                      in the next column it has - Warrant of Sheriff substitute of Lanarkshire dated 27 July 1916, - this means an irregular marriage ????
                      Now my brain might not be working but I thought subsequently meant - after or later

                      can anyone shed some light
                      Hiya

                      Sorry I am confused over what bit you are confused about so am struggling to answer.

                      The fact that its an irregular marriage..... this is the couple whose marriage cert you are looking at that have had an irregular marriage and not the mother of the groom.

                      I'm sorry because you are probably shouting at the screen now and calling me everything because you probably know this but I am confused as to what your question is..... :D
                      With Experience comes Realisation

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Could it be that both bride and groom where born illegitimately to their mothers and although both mothers 'subsequently' married they didn't actually marry the legitimate fathers?

                        As for the irregular marriage of bride and groom, this has nothing to do with the fact that they were born illegitimately..... lots of people had irregular marriages it actually became quite fashionable for a while.
                        With Experience comes Realisation

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks Everyone


                          Have you booked your holidays yet ?
                          Why not come to Norfolk we have some great churches for you to photograph



                          Shake my family tree and watch the nuts fall.


                          Looking for Druce-Berkshire. Auvache , James, Hughes - London. Turp - Essex. Dipple, - Herefordshire.

                          Regional Co ordinator Eastern Region

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi BigShaz,
                            That is what I am trying to sort out - what it is was about the marriage that was 'irregular'


                            Have you booked your holidays yet ?
                            Why not come to Norfolk we have some great churches for you to photograph



                            Shake my family tree and watch the nuts fall.


                            Looking for Druce-Berkshire. Auvache , James, Hughes - London. Turp - Essex. Dipple, - Herefordshire.

                            Regional Co ordinator Eastern Region

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tasdev00 View Post
                              Hi BigShaz,
                              That is what I am trying to sort out - what it is was about the marriage that was 'irregular'
                              Well until 1940 there was 3 different types of irregular marriage.
                              From 1940 onwards it all changed and civil marriage began.

                              Irregular marriages had been going on for a couple of hundred years or more, I can't remember exactly when they started.

                              In the case of the couple on your cert theirs was registered and was really just like a registry office wedding.
                              It meant they didn't marry in church and they weren't married by a man of the cloth (minister/ priest)

                              The marriage was legal and above board but just 'irregular'

                              My Great Grandparents married in the same way in 1920. The ceremony was held at a house and they just got married. Their children were legitimate and when Great Granny died my Grandpa was a widow. If they had split up at any time a divorce would have been needed they couldn't just go off and marry someone else that would have been bigamy in the same way as if they had married in a church.

                              They were both church going people and I was surprised to find that they married in this way as I would have expected a church wedding but I don't know their reasons for not having one.... could be that G Granny's mum wasn't happy about the fact that she was marrying a policeman.... she'd been in a spot of bother herself.

                              Maybe Grandpa being a policeman didn't want the church wedding because his family and colleagues would have had to sit along side a criminal... LOL

                              Honestly though..... I think it was more to do with the fact that they married 2nd week in October and first baby was born in at end of March

                              I don't know if banns still had to go up 3 sundays in a row back then but they married on a Wednesday and she must have been 16wks preggers then so another 3 wks Ooooh the clothes must have been pinching as it was. :D

                              The 3 types of irregular marriage in Scotland were....
                              Live together (common law)
                              If a man said he was going to marry a girl and then she fell pregnant then that was enough for them to be married and then there was the declaration in front of witnesses.

                              The pain in the butt part is the fact that these went on for years and no banns meant no mention in parish records so we may find ancestors in 1770 but not be able to find a marriage for their parents.

                              Back then though.... people often wanted their babies baptised and had to go to the minister and ask him to do it explaining that they had an irregular marriage and they were fined for not marrying in the church. The babies would be baptised though as they were deemed legitimate.

                              Oh I meant to add..... if both bride and grrom in your case were illegitimate then maybe they were unable to be baptised and then because of that they may not have been allowed to marry in church so they went for the irregular marriage option.
                              Gretna Green was famous for irregular marriages.
                              .
                              With Experience comes Realisation

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Other irregular marriages being Engilish couples crossing a few miles into Scotland so that they did not have to marry in the Anglican Church. 1753-1837.
                                Also known as cross border marriages.

                                Coldstream Bridge, Gretna Green and Lamberton Toll, were popular detinations.
                                Not really relevant for you as it was long before the marriage date in question, just thought I'd mention it anyway.

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