The winner of WDWTYA? 28th February 2008 is......

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

kelly smith!

Well done kelly........

* waits to hear about 100's of people named Smith*

[gloryer]

congratulations..maybe you are hiding some of my SMith's

[kelly smith]

WOW thank you very much, I will just get my papers out and will be back with.... yes you guesed it my smith line which at present is tiny!!!
thank you again!!

[kelly smith]

Ok Here goes, This is what I know like I said its not a lot!

My Grandad was born 2nd qtr 1930 in West Ham. His parents are Florence Hilda Maude Bailey and William David Smith ( very rare name I know!!) I believe they were both born around 1900 and i know they had both died between 1975 and 1980. The only other names I have got is Williams mum who was Anne Smith ( I believe her maiden name was Anne Rosina Thorne) and his father John William Smith ( another corker I know).

Florences Dad was Henry Bailey (your all gonna curse me!) I have no other info about her.

Places that have come up in rare conversations with this side of my family are Canning Town and Plastow.

I would love to find some census results for these people and try to take the line back a bit further,

I am really greatful for any help!

Thank you again

[KiteRunner]

My Grandad was born 2nd qtr 1930 in West Ham. His parents are Florence Hilda Maude Bailey and William David Smith ( very rare name I know!!) I believe they were both born around 1900 and i know they had both died between 1975 and 1980. The only other names I have got is Williams mum who was Anne Smith ( I believe her maiden name was Anne Rosina Thorne) and his father John William Smith ( another corker I know).

Florences Dad was Henry Bailey (your all gonna curse me!) I have no other info about her.

Kelly, have you got Florence and William's marriage certificate? And if so, what info does it have on it? And any other certificates? I think you are probably going to need some to sort this lot out!

[KiteRunner]

This is the reference for William and Florence's marriage, in case you don't already have it:

Jun 1921 Florence H M Bailey / William D Smith W Ham 4a 721.

[KiteRunner]

As you already know, Kelly, you can't be sure of anything with names like Smith and Bailey unless you have plenty of evidence such as certs, info from your family, etc. but do you know whether your granddad had any brothers and sisters? I don't want to post up the names in case they are still alive but there are a couple of possibles in West Ham 1922 and 1926 - let me know if you would like me to send you a PM with the names and references? They are on FreeBMD anyway.

[kelly smith]

Hi Kite

Someone in my family did give 1921 as the year of marrage but I tend not to hold too much weight on what they have said but I have been prooved wrong Perhaps I should stop being so sceptical LOL

[kelly smith]

Must have posted at teh same time! I do know some of his bro and sis names and yes some are still alive if you PM them I might be able to tell you if they sound right.

[borobabs]

Congratulations and good Luck Kelly ,,,

[KiteRunner]

This is the reference for Florence's birth reg:

Jun 1900
Bailey Florence Hilda M, West Ham 4a 76.

(Now why did I decide to start on the Bailey side, I wonder??!)

[KiteRunner]

This must be Florence's family on the 1901 census:

RG13/1575 Folio 109 Page 49
8 Croydon Rd, Plaistow, West Ham:
Henry G Bailey Head M 28 Carter for Ship Chandler Essex Plaistow
Bessie A Do Wife M 30 London Stepney
Henry T Do Son S 7 Essex Plaistow
Thomas R Do Son S 2 " Do
Florence H M Do Daur S 11m " Do

[KiteRunner]

This looks like Henry and Bessie's marriage from FreeBMD - but again, you would be best to get the certs all the way through to be sure you have the right people. It was nice of them to all have middle names, though, that helps a lot!

Dec 1892
Bailey Henry George / Patterson Bessie Ann - West Ham 4a 135.

[kelly smith]

Kite your too quick!! LOL Can't believe you managed to find them so quickly I'm scribeling in my note book as we speak!

[KiteRunner]

Going by the fact that your Henry has a middle name George, this looks like his family in 1891. If it's right then it should be pretty easy to trace them back but we do just have to be careful because there is another Henry Bailey the same age born Plaistow on the census.

RG12/1323 Folio 20 Page 33
Essex - West Ham - 38 James St
Robert H Bailey Head Widower 47 Brewers Labourer Surrey Newcross
Robert E Do Son Single 23 Iron Warehouseman
Louisa C Bailey Daur S 21 Essex Plaistow
Henry G do Son S 18 Carman Do
Albert J Do Son 13 Scholar Do
Frederick W Do Son 11 Scholar Do
Arthur Do Son 8 Scholar Do
Sarah Ann Do Daur 6 Scholar Do
Sarah Do Mother Widow 80 Surrey Wandsworth
Kate Anstiss Visitor S 26 Dressmaker Middlesex Hackney

The "other" Henry doesn't have a middle initial shown on the census and he is a lodger, occupation labourer. I would think that carman is closer to carter than labourer is anyway.

Got to go out now so that should give you a chance to catch up!

UPDATE - just realised that the "other" Henry is actually much older than yours and is already married in 1891 - his age has just been mistranscribed on ancestry so we don't need to worry about him!

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Hmmm.....Obviously we won't be able to find William David Smith b about 1900 very easily (Update - Oh yes we will - see further down this post!! ). However, you said his mother was Anne Rosina Thorne who married John William Smith.

Here's their marriage:

Name: Ann Rosina Thorne
Year of Registration: 1900
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: West Ham
County: Essex, Greater London
Volume: 4a
Page: 471

Spouse John William Smith.

There's this birth which looks possible:

Name: Ann Rosina Thorne
Year of Registration: 1877
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: West Ham
County: Essex, Greater London
Volume: 4a
Page: 63


These look like Ann Thorne in 1881 and 1891:

1881: RG11; Piece: 1714; Folio: 108; Page: 33;

1891: RG12; Piece: 1323; Folio 36; Page 65

and then in 1901 Ann and John Smith are living with his mother-in-law, Clara Thorne:

1901: RG13; Piece: 1574; Folio: 139; Page: 17

The only thing is, Ann and John have only been married about a year, but the children in the house are aged 6, 4, 2 and 8 months. So either John was a widower when he married or they didn't get round to marrying for a while!!

The good news is the 8mth old is William and here's his birth reg:

Name: William David Smith
Year of Registration: 1900
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: West Ham
County: Essex, Greater London
Volume: 4a
Page: 94

[kelly smith]

Thank you Merry I think williams is the first cert i'm going to order to see if ann was his real mum or step mum, can I be cheeky Merry and ask if you might tell me what is on the cesus as I don't have a subscrition any more if its easier to email them to me ill pm you my addy, thank you again

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

As you go back, you can be grateful the Smith's had middle names!

Here's the birth reg for John William Smith

Births Dec 1872
SMITH John William W.Ham 4a 30

and here he is in 1881:

RG11; Piece: 1711; Folio: 2; Page: 5

The good news is his father (listed as plain John Smith on this census!) and his wife, Isabella, are both from Suffolk villages, which (if they are listed correctly) may make the search easier!

John and Isabella in 1871 (with same villages listed as place of birth ):

RG10; Piece: 1632; Folio: 100; Page: 47

As Kite said already, it's really important that you back up absolutely everything with certs when you are doing commonplace names, but I hope the above proves correct. I could go further, but that would be tempting fate!

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Yes, pm me your addy!

I may not be able to get the images to you straight away.....will do it by tonight though......

[kelly smith]

Thank you Merry have pmed you